Tonight! Lawyer or Pro Se? The Neil Garfield Show with Charles Marshall

Is it better to lawyer up or is it better to go it alone?

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Tonight’s Show Hosted by Charles Marshall, Esq. 

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We all know the theoretical answer. If you go into an operating room at a hospital you want a doctor doing whatever needs to be done. If you’re on an airplane you want a pilot. There is no guarantee that everything will turn out right but we can all agree that the chances for a favorable outcome are better with the doctor in the operating rom and a pilot at the controls.

So the same holds true for going to court. The lawyer is going to know the courthouse, the people, the rules and the applicable law better than you do. A lot of “bad law” has been created because of poor presentations in court that didn’t attack the central issues.

BUT, homeowners are afraid of getting ripped off again. And lawyers cost money. So lots of people, back in the mid 2000’s were representing themselves and some of them did pretty well. Lawyers, from the start, were back-peddling from foreclosure defense for two reasons: they were afraid of not getting paid enough and they didn’t want to lose a bunch of cases.

The key point here is that complete success is possible and does happen. The statistics are piled against that result because the statistics include uncontested cases where the ghosts get the foreclosure simply because nobody opposed it.

And there is the perpetual problem arising from bias (invalid assumptions): (1) homeowners do owe the money (not necessarily true) (2) once they stop paying homeowners should lose the house no matter who brings the claim. So instead of presenting a passionate and aggressive and successful defense many lawyers argue only half-heartedly present the defense and get steam-rolled by lawyers who may not even  have a client.

After everything is untangled, it is unclear whether there is an actual legal or even equitable liability of a homeowner, whose name is used to sell dozens of derivatives that amount to multiple sales of the initial homeowner liability.  Some might ask why should homeowners get a windfall and the answer is simple: most of them were cheated by predatory loan products that intentionally overvalued homes and intentionally drove prices far higher than standard valuations. They got screwed by ghost lenders who made millions on even low amounts of mortgage debt.

My take is if the real lenders made more than the amount they lended, then there is no debt. If that undermines the rationale behind the sales of bogus MBS and derivatives, that risk should fall on the investment banks who were most probably the only parties that qualify as lenders, even if they were using other people’s money to make the loans.

9 Responses

  1. Not my original words, but very well stated —–> I want to restate something I’ve stated many times before… as it relates to pro se’s and bad law… 20 million foreclosures since 2008… nobody knows the real amount but I’ve seen it estimated that 70% of all of those foreclosures are actually, legally VOID…. all bad law! Committed by Legal Professionals… ALL BAD LAW!!! Doesn’t seem to be hurting them… does it?

    And about those pro se’s creating bad law? I’ve heard this “Bad Law” BS coming from the few that are always in the “I’ve been studying Law for months/years now” group…. who now, all of the sudden are self made professionals worrying about everyone ELSE making “Bad Law”… and underneath it all… it seems actually to be their own their want and desire to “fit in” with the people they’ve been researching (attorneys and the written Law) for the past few months… who also believe it’s “their duty” to propagate the concept of pros se’s creating Bad Law!

    If it’s Bad Law… then the Judge has the responsibility to rule against it!

    If it’s bad law… then the appellate court has the responsibility to rule against it.

    If it’s a pro se ANYTHING… then it’s the DUTY of the entire membership of the BAR to use every contrivance at their convenience, which probably might well include writing and privately passing around papers on new, inventive and even underhanded methods they can think of to convince all pro se’s of their need to pay the BAR…. and the threat of a pro se creating “bad law” is just another underhanded method of doing so.

    It’s 9 years since we all found out about the illegalities being brought against American homeowner’s by these big banks and their attorneys and the collusion of our courts… and it goes on to this day.

    Have we seen the Court’s call a halt to it? No. Have we seen Plaintiff’s Attorneys prosecuted for entering false and fraudulently created documents representing impossible transferences of notes and mortgages into our court’s proceedings and property records? NO! Have any of us actually seen where any Bank has actually PAID any of those almost $300 billion in fines and penalties that they have been charged for all of their illegal actions? NO! Have the Banks stopped? NO!

    So… attorney’s are, for the most part, paid Liars, our Court’s are proving daily that for the most part our judges are, again not all but for the most part, just cheap ole paid off liars and most of our govt. agencies that are paid by “We The People” have also proven to us all that they are also, for the most part, just more sleazy paid off Liars. The proof is undeniable and gargantuan.

    So, if you’re one of those Attorneys, a Judge or a member of some Govt. Agency that’s colluding (either knowingly or not) with the terrorist Banks… Sometimes the truth does hurt. Awwwww.

    So does someone losing their home.

  2. NOT an advocate for anyone, but I think Neil has the resources to help many. One thing is always ignored — the last refinance (or dubious purchase) was NOT the original contract. Just restructuring of the original contract. This applies only to those whose loan is claimed to be in a private security trust. It takes huge investigating — which I think Neil can do. I think Neil understands this. I just don’t see much written about it. I see touching upon it. I see the elements, but not the full story. Much is obvious – and two and two then add easily to four. There was a loan — just what kind of loan? And, what was disclosed at closing?

    SOL starts from discovery. Full discovery, but need to show a reason to go back further. There is massive reason to go back further then the last transaction.

    People trusted — were conned. Problem is — if it is shown what really happened — the cover-up is huge – with trillions of dollars at stake. Foreclosures without merit. How can that ever be fixed – without collapse? Nevertheless, all eventually surfaces. It is the way it is.

    The people were wrongly blamed.

    National Economic Security and Recovery Act was a set of proposed economic reforms suggested during the 1990s by Harvey Francis Barnard. Barnard claimed that the proposals, which included replacing the income tax with a national sales tax, abolishing compound interest on secured loans, and returning to a bimetallic currency, would result in 0% inflation and a more stable economy. The proposals were never introduced before Congress.

  4. @ david belanger

    National Economic Security and Recovery Act was a set of proposed economic reforms suggested during the 1990s by Harvey Francis Barnard. Barnard claimed that the proposals, which included replacing the income tax with a national sales tax, abolishing compound interest on secured loans, and returning to a bimetallic currency, would result in 0% inflation and a more stable economy. The proposals were never introduced before Congress.

  5. Unless these principles are widely publicized by the media, most laymen, lawyers and the Judiciary believe the fact that if the homeowner stopped paying, his default on the contract is the only one that matters. It has been hushed up and violations of statutes protected by statute of limitation on TILA and other contract violations in the original home loan “contract”, which often only come to light YEARS AFTER when the loan is defaulted on and the “lenders” start the foreclosure process. Meanwhile millions of American middle class families have had their main store of wealth stolen from them and no legal recourse available unless these families also have much savings and can even FIND a lawyer who will help them. Most of the lawyers in our nonjudicial state of North Carolina will not touch the issues of where the money trail leads or do the foreclosers have any standing in the first place to foreclose. And that unfortunately is the only thing that will save the homeowner from financial ruin by Bankruptcy or foreclosure on his/her/their credit reports. We are just royally screwed. And there is no help for us unless the fraud is blown wide open by some lawyers and let the chips fall where they may, implicate some high up government officials and Judiciary members, etc. In other words, there is no help for us, we have been wiped out, defrauded, and had our store of wealth stolen from us.

  6. We need to fix the judiciary first.

  7. National Economic Security and Reformation Act
    Global Peace, Freedom and Prosperity
    A law was passed in the United States in March 2000 and signed into law in October of 2000. This law is called
    N.E.S.A.R.A. – National Economic Security and Reformation Act. All politicians and media members are
    under a gag order to not speak of it publicly until it is officially announced. This new law will first be enacted in
    the United States and eventually will be rolled out across the world. The law provides:
    • Forgives all credit card, mortgage, student loan and other bank debt due to illegal banking and
    government activities
    • Dissolves the IRS and ends all income tax
    • Creates flat rate non-essential “new items only” sales tax (food, medicine and all used items will not
    be taxed)
    • Increases benefits to senior citizens
    • Returns Constitutional Law to all our courts and legal matters – re-trains all judges and attorneys in
    Constitutional Law
    • Provides for new representational elections within Constitutional Law.
    • Monitors elections and prevents illegal activities of billionaires and special interest groups
    • Ends the Federal Reserve System and begins a new US Treasury bank system that follows
    Constitutional Law
    • Creates new US Treasury currency backed by gold, silver and precious metals, ending US Government
    bankruptcy. This will initiate global economic reform.
    • Restores financial privacy
    • Ceases all aggressive US Government military action worldwide
    • Leads to peace throughout the world
    • Enables release of over 6,000 patents of suppressed technologies and enormous sums of money
    for humanitarian purposes
    The provisions of the National Economic Security and Reformation Act have been composed by visionaries
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  8. I have been studying the law for over 45 years. I am NOT an attorney, lawyer or barrister. I have been in court dozens of times fighting traffic tickets, banks and even wrote about winning a foreclosure case for my x-wife in the comments section on this website years ago. I am a Pro Se, Sui Juris.
    Depending on the circumstances of the case, I have used attorneys before. There is a time when it is prudent to do so. However, make no mistake. When hiring an attorney you are getting a BAR card member.
    I suggest you look up British Accreditation Registry and foreign agent. Look up ward of the court. As long as you know what you are getting into, it is your choice. I mostly choose to go Sui Juris.
    Dr. James Chappell

  9. Go Pro Se. You will sleep better at night. And respect yourself in the morning. No Doubt about it.

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