Realities of Rescission Litigation

Since it appears that Judges around the country are finding wiggle room where none exists, it may be wise to add the fraud charges to the initial complaint seeking enforcement of rescission, injunction, and quiet title.




Just a short note on why people should have us analyze their situation before they get into rescission litigation. It is true that there should not be any litigation where the rescission was sent, received and the “creditor” did nothing for more than 20 days and frequently more than 1 year and even several years. But Judges are continuing to resist the application of the procedure clearly set forth in TILA rescission slamming the door, where they can, based upon a presumptive finding of fact that the loan contract was consummated, and presuming it was consummated when the documents were apparently signed. Once again we are dealing with presumed facts that are most likely untrue.

And once again, despite Jesinoski, the courts are reading into the statute on procedure and saying that various conditions apply when the statute and the Supreme Court say otherwise. All rescissions are effective when mailed regardless of whether or not they are disputed.

So after due consideration I am inclined to say that even though it goes against what I think is correct procedure, it might be wise to consider filling the complaint with your allegations of fraudulent concealment etc that might equitably toll the 3 year expiration of rescission, and might convince the judge that there are questions of fact that need to be raised and just possibly might force the defendants to answer instead of relying on their motion to dismiss.

And this would enable the filer to argue against the use of common legal presumptions because the documents are not trustworthy when they are backdated, fabricated, forged, robo-signed etc. If the Judge agrees with that proposition then there is no basis on which the Judge can say the three year expired, the loan was purchase money, etc. It’s all thrown back on the “lending” side to allege the facts and prove them with legal standing — i.e., without the use of the note and mortgage.

Their singular problem might be revealed — that they don’t have an identified creditor and they have no way of finding the creditor because the money for the loans actually came from a dynamic dark pool.

Comments welcome.

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24 Responses

  1. Replying to OnTheBubble and TL. Thank you for the reference to Bill Paatalo’s case–great stuff!!!! If anyone feels a need to include fraud issues in the TILA Complaint For Declaratory Relief, the matter is covered to some extent in Paatalo’s “…Opposition…” to Chase Motion To Dismiss. Paatalo’s situation is very distinct, but enough there to apply to any TILA rescission enforcement case.

    Reply to: TresspassUnwanted. Yes, I’m aware I can go into the US court and look at files. Distance, however, makes it impossible–no public transportation in rural Washington to other rural Washington about 1.5 hrs away. However, as I hear of an attorney working with rescission enforcement in Washington State, I call the court to get case numbers and then go to Pacer. Hope this helps someone else. Thank you for taking the time to write all that, TresspassUnwanted.

    Reply to: MN and OnTheBubble. Thanks for the comments. I agree with OnTheBubble on amending complaints, especially for Complaint For Declaratory Relief for enforcing TILA rescission. You are aware, OnTheBubble, that request to amend is only needed when defendants have anwered or entered?

    Reply to: Sandlin. That judge is wrong! Bakers ought to appeal to Supreme Court. I will look up work of Bakers’ attorney, Scott Stafne. He’s generally pretty sharp. I’ve talked with him a couple times when under foreclosure threat. He is, however, as MOST attorneys, very DISINCLINED, OPPOSED, to discuss a case using natural person consumer law against the note and DT–Washington Deed of Trust Act, RCW 61.24. You can see this same opposition in Neil’s writing and in discussions and presentations on his radio program.

    We all have very good reasons why consummation did not occur. I’ve been building them on a single base of non-disclosure of commercial / business documents used fraudulently and contrary to consumer law effecting a natural man (“person”) consumer when acting “for personal, family, and household purposes”. That is what TILA is ALL about.

    But, as usual, most lawyers are diverting attention away from the heart and obvious of TILA and other laws and protections designed to protect a non-commercial, non-artificial entity, natural man. A friend and I have been articulating and refining this single front for many years now, his beginning nearly 20 yrs ago.

    Respectfully, Neil, I believe it is a mistake to put ANY claims and/or defenses into the rescission enforcement action. Consider the intent, authority, and power/ability of the elected legislators to bring into law TILA, as expressed in the statutes.

    When a judge is wrong, he’s wrong, and should be immediately appealed and/or be made subject to void judgment. It is not likely that an unanimous Supreme Court will overturn itself, especially in a matter that affects even them, their families and acquaintances for generations. We need to keep in mind how allowing a judge or court to make law or ignore the legislators from the bench thereby undermining the entire constitution, which is to bind down government from doing whatever any of them please, and make our situation so much worse. Perhaps, this is part of a plan. Not unimaginable, in the obvious. We certainly must stand against it and not cater to lawyers/judges/courts in lawbreaking.

    Instead of making a CLAIM or DEFENSE in the “Complaint for Declaratory Relief”, when perceived and done properly, i.e. according to TILA, I believe fraud is built into the right of rescission, and we ONLY point this out to the court. (1) It is in plain sight in front of you in the documents you signed; and (2) in your rescission.

    As I said, we don’t make a defense or claim for TILA rescission enforcement in our Complaint For Declaratory Relief. That turns the document into an arguable case, a contest on the issue. “Jury Demand” does the same thing. No! No! No! Then it is no longer ENFORCEMENT. Get the point?

    Neil, I believe you are dead wrong on this, and playing the typical lawyer. Beware! Is someone intimidating you, or threatening you? Your idea is WRONG, as you even said so!

    To assist our thinking: What is the context of TILA, statutorily? Who is it aimed at? For what purpose? Why was that body of law created by the legislators (you and me)? How is it made effective?

    Don’t drop your TILA case. You can also file your fraud case for deceptive practices, etc., under consumer law of your state and/or under FDCPA. I say get them as many ways as we can, and let Yehovah God pay us from them as we stand with Yehowshua’ (Jesus) His new Man against the evil, against this oppressive financial, emotional, dignity, rights raping of Men, male/female of all ages, and families, and society, etc.

    We have state law claims that are not extinguished by suit under federal law. Remember, TILA relief is based on violations regarding the papers. State law has that, too, and we can bring action for violations against our homestead, etc. Once we get enforcement Order, as in Paatalo, we can file criminal charges, RICO, and more, which will put in place deterrents to court/government approvals of continued lawlessness in and out of courts.
    As we get paid on one suit, we will have enough as our living to pursue other actions against the tort feasors. Every little bit helps at this point, since all time from other matters is used to stand against all manner of money, land, and property fraud, deception, and wrong-doing.

    I’ve never been able to speak with an attorney regarding TILA or with any attorney truly knowledgable about the note and DT from a deep sole consumer standpoint. Our loans were NEVER subject to securities, or securitization situations. I believe that most ALL attorneys KNOW this and are riding the money/profit wave of illegality as “foreclosure defense” lawyers and as lawyers for the banks, etc. Greedy, corrupt, and abusing the innocent people who only sought a true loan to purchase a homestead for personal, family, and household purposes.

    Have you experienced or ever noticed that lawyers representing “homeowners” want to get people into modification, or some other admission, and not entirely off the hook for bank and government violations of laws that protect the common Man who is acting ONLY for his personal, family, and household purposes?

    Having said that, I believe the term “natural person consumer” is a legal hook into the people that makes us amenable to laws outside of natural rights created only by Creator God Yehovah. Not the time right now for this discussion.

    Keep focused. You’re soon to cross the victory line in 1st place! by the grace and Love of Yehovah for you and yours. Let Him manifest and magnify Himself and the dominion of His new Man Yehowshua’ (Jesus–I prefer his Hebrew name, defined as Yehovah-saved, Yehovah-delivered.) How to win in court.

    A must for every pro se. Taught by a winning lawyer in practice, forum, consultation price for members.


    “A man who represents himself,
    has a lawyer with his best interest in mind.”
    – Bocetti

  2. @Beryl: Regarding amended complaints: You absolutely CAN NOT ALWAYS file an amended complaint AND be certain the court will approve it . Amended complaints must be requested and they can be opposed, sometimes successfully by opposing counsel. The court exercises discretion over amended complaints which means that they are not always granted. I would encourage you to acquaint yourself with the Rules of Federal Civil Procedure (FRCP) as time permits if you are contemplating civil litigation in the federal court system.

  3. Friday 13 May 2016


    Do you have a focused question you want to ask re rescission? I see
    you filed one, as of yesterday…did not see your post, before. Do not
    worry about its content, at this point. You can always file an amended

    Also, if your complaint did not meet standards, the judge will kick it back,
    almost always without prejudice, to amend. Either way, you have time.



  4. Anonymous, thank you for your insights as to what I was actually saying in my post and for taking your precious time to communicate it and ally with me.

    Trespass, MN, and Bubble, thank you for taking the time to make your detailed posts and bless others therewith.

    To all: With all due respect, it appears to me that AnonymousNortheast is the only one who really read my post–meaning, listened to and heard me.

    Did you not see that I said I’ve been IN this fight, and am still fighting–in and out of court for NINE (9) years? And that on TWO homes!

    All that you suggest we should do, I have been doing–led of Yehovah God by faith of the man, Jesus Christ, by whom the faithful to right, justice, and truth have dominion on this earth here and now. This is the reason to fight in this battle if led to do so for high and holy purpose–otherwise it will absolutely consume you, mind, body, and spirit, family and all good you ever held.

    Just like you, Trespass, MN, and Bubble, I’ve had to learn and keep learning how to improve my study, my thinking, strengthen my courage. I believe Anonymous picked up on this.

    Not to denigrate your important advice, there are occurrences of TIME PRESSURE, as Anonymous astutely confirms. The study, research, and mental labor has been tireless, you think you have it all together. You’ve been building that court document in your mind and in writing with every new fact discovered, discerned, considered. Then, you find, in spite of ALL the court case opinions and some initiating and responsive documents you’ve read, there remain nagging procedural questions–dozens of them–just concerning the document itself, even though you’ve studied the procedure, rules, and how to comply. Such as:
    1. what exactly of what I’ve gathered do I MOST need to put in the document;
    2. what might prejudice the court against me and/or against my case;
    3. what’s the best way to divide the material–seen so many variations, yet don’t have the experience to be certain, because the laws and facts of those cases, including mine, seem to require different from the cases studied–which do I use?;
    4. what should I not include–it all seems so important, objectivity needed;
    5. learning and working within a new court system;
    6. new rules;
    7. new cases changing or challenging my building draft;
    8. having in mind all those opinions I’ve read that were flat out contrary to law and justice;
    9. reducing it all to the best;
    10. refining it;
    11. time is running, running out;
    12. I’m still trying to grasp a few important details;
    13. my time is being called upon by some other family necessities along the way that I need to be mentally, physically, spiritually, personally, parentally, spousewise, daughterwise, siblingwise, friendwise, socially and otherwise PRESENT;
    14. and so much more.
    15. Dare I ask for help, knowing what I might get in response?
    16. Dare I speak what’s been on my mind for years through all this–the part about lawyers as judges, businessmen, snakes everywere, who’ve brought it all to pass, as I said? Have you found that, as I have, in your research? In your time in court? In the lies in their documents to the court, perversion after perversion, which you read in quiet agony, more and more depressed and oppressed with each sentence? Have you experienced it from the judge, who actually testifies for the theiving, lying bank lawyers the glories of their client (JPMorgan Chase Bank, N.A.), ignores the truth about the illegally operating trustee, in open court? Holds our case to another day–alone on the docket. Then stages his plunder, which really only he could do. The decision was at that lawyer’s/judge’s feet all along the way. Only the grace of Yehovah God, and considering the Man Jesus Christ, has kept me from breakdown, and pressing on through all this. Not to mention family issues.

    All of this no one had a supportive word for, EXCEPT Anonymous (and that gently), even though no mal-intent was expressed toward Neil. Just an honest request made under intensifying pressure. No man, male or female, has any special place in my heart or life because of his “profession”, only by his actual deeds that conform to righteous thinking.

    I come down hard on lawyers/judges because I’ve seen my Son literally financially, emotionally, morally raped of his years of labor and dream of the 3 million dollar home he built in Hawaii with blood, sweat, tears, relationship. He built the home for his family, for me, for his sister, for all his kin. It was his dream for his family. He grew up with me not having enough, but always keeping an acceptable roof over our heads and good food in our bellies (I’m a vegan and raised my children this way.). I was committed to being home with my children when my husband decided to leave one day, don’t really know why, only can guess, but he never came back. I continued my commitment to be a “stay-at-home” Mother, so my children would not be without two parents. I took in whatever work I could get and learned new ways so my children and I did not look or feel impoverished–even though finances were a constant struggle, and we had no unnecessaries, none! But I lived gratefully. Whining and weakening does not become heroes. I’m determined, by faith and prayers believing in Yehovah, “God is good”, and seeing God’s goodness revealed through the Man above all Men–overcomer–Jesus the Christ, “a Man like unto his brethren”, just like us–started out with the same material we did, to be a hero in my family, to anyone I can help. I pray this spirit to be my children’s.

    Bank of America, through MERS and Countrywide, took my Son’s house by lies, and sold it for $1.5mil. That buyer-investor team sold it two years later for $2.5mil. By the power, grace, and Love of Yehovah God, we will have that house back–it, like the one I’m in (also by my Son several years before Hawaii), under attack by JPMorgan Chase Bank, N.A., and WaMu before that, are dedicated to Yehovah by our authority in Jesus Christ.

    Anthony’s Hawaii house–his dream situation is what brought me into this legal arena. I knew absolutely nothing even about buying a house, let alone saving my Son from loss concerning one. Anthony got both homesteads–Hawaii and here in Washington.

    When the Hawaii mortgage interest increased beyond manageable, I sat down and read every word on every document associated with the financing of that land, the construction “loan”, and the final “mortgage”. After hours of reading small print, I was shocked, horrified. I cried. Really cried. I pulled out the papers on this Washington house. Nearly exactly the same. The next day, I called my Son. I asked him how and why he signed such papers. He said that in both instances he tried to negotiate the note and mortgage documents and terms. He was told repeatedly not to worry about those things, that these documents are used everywhere, have been in use for many years. He was misled and defrauded by deceptive practices with “LEGAL” documents. I only could empathize and sympathize with him.

    I jumped into the fire with him. My study of law began, while my Son did many things to handle the finances. Our lives dramatically changed. We were both so afraid. I could not let mine show. Both so inadequate. Both so stonewalled by the LEGAL powers and authorities driving the bank lies and deep, pervasive frauds. I know these for fact. The county auditor / recorder’s office, courts’ files, and law books will prove to you what I’m saying. Look through those records with an eye to see what you’ve not seen before. Pray for discernment, knowledge, understanding, and wisdom–for Truth’s sake, for your and your family’s sake. Ask and it shall be given you. Seek and ye shall find. Knock and it shall be opened to you. Be analytical to a near “fault” in the eyes of others. Yehovah and Jesus Christ, the new Man with dominion over earth and in earth, won’t mind at all, but might if you are not. Occupy!

    One of my early researches was to discover how those documents, “instruments” were/are created. Pay attention to the tiny print at the bottom, front and back, of the documents. Ask yourself some questions. Look for the answers, or ask me. Who writes those documents? LAWYERS!!!!! Some here know this is true. Who are the governing people that pretend to be our defenders? LAWYERS!!!! Who created pretender lenders and who gives them the scripts, props, characters, roles, costumes, scenery, story, and staging to carry out their drama? LAWYERS!!!! Who’s behind the escrow, insurance, and tax frauds? LAWYERS!!!! Who are the self-made, self-ordained nobility in America? LAWYERS!!!! Who is the hierarchy in politics, religion, education, commerce, “government”, entertainment, commonalities of life in our social order? LAWYERS!!! And to think that I wanted to be one!!!

    It’s NOT enough to know how to make our case in court. We must know why we need to present our case. The right principles, I believe, are still in the law, mixed with evil and often covered by it. But it’s there. If there’s bad law, bring it out in your litigation to have it removed. Dare to be a Daniel! When you look for the law to apply to your case, ask questions on every word in its place. Let each word have its weight. Never read without dictionaries. Assume you know nothing. Yehovah God has assured us that He has given us all wisdom in His new Man Jesus Christ. Believe you receive it. Listen for and talk to God as you work, research, learn. You absolutely need this for strength, for courage, for wisdom, for success. Everything we do toward right in judgment lifts us and our fellowmen higher.

    Be prepared for court and judicial prejudice, because in some way or another your newness to the field will manifest. Besides, and the biggest obstacle, lawyers/judges, like doctors, nurses, and most other “professionals” just plain get irritated that you’re learning a different way, on the job, and learning things they never yet imagined, or never expected you to learn. So, some may want you to appear a fool. Helps their wounded pride, I suppose. Lawyers/judges are not more intelligent than you because of their JD or position. Most likely, they are more experienced than you. That’s all.

    Some of us are more experienced than others in these matters, which is why I asked you, Neil, to help us on this particular phase of making a rescission complaint into a few samples to help us. You’ve done similar a number of times, Neil. Those have been the very most valuable articles– all your lessons on a particular point shaped into the wording of an usable legal document–preserving our time and energy to stay in the war, increasing our wisdom.

    That you might understand my request to Neil and others here, more realistically and reasonably, Trespass, MN, and Bubble, consider it in the context of my remarks concerning lawyers. Hardly a lawyer can be found with knowledge and experience in note and mortgage foreclosure defense, and much fewer in rescission of those documents. Study, listen, write, all you can, and you still have to formulate the complaint. Pieces are here and there–I’ve been gleaning them from cases and from Neil’s articles and guest articles. So have lawyers. Lawyers have sample templates they share with each other. They have books with them. I have some of those, e.g. Federal Civil Procedure Before Trial, purchased over 20 years ago, a few Nolo books, Washington State statutes-not annotated, not annotated rules, a little paperback on answering objections, the pro se course at The catch is time to gather all the information, all the pieces, soak in what it actually says and means, learning a few foreign languages with it all–legalese, latin, others, APPLY it in a finished masterpiece designed to win, to persuade the expert that what is in your heart and mind is just and true by the standards he is governed by, in expectation that he will yield to that governance. How many times will you get up and go at it again, and again, and again, when some of that could be saved by a winning expert’s help in a few sample documents–like any teacher would provide his students on each part of his subject. Don’t you remember from school? How do you do your parenting? Same thing. Older brothers and sisters with their youngers doing the same.

    So I say, if lawyers really want to save the people and stop the horrors, they are the best and right ones to do it, because they and/or their fellows have made the circumstances, and cause the situations to develop and multiply. They know it. God knows it. I know it. We know it. The best of them will empty out to us so we can gratefully take it and run with it to victory as they also work for the same. This is true Love among men. This is not asking for free handouts, or even a handup. It is doing what you want others to do for you, in honor of creator God, for Love’s sake, not mere romance. I can tell you, Neil, how to recover from and avoid more heart trouble without surgery and medications, how to overcome and be cured from diabetes, cancer, pneumonia, colon problems, stones, and more, but I don’t have MD after my name, so you likely wouldn’t listen to me, even though I have a trail of successes. I probably wouldn’t charge you anything, which you might take to mean that it’s worthless.

    By the way, my research and fellowship on the entirety of foreclosure, notes, deeds of trust, loans that are not loans, and all the mess is made by LAWYERS to be far more complex than it actually is. The one single reality, fact, that vanquishes ALL the complexity of securitization of the “loans”, the single signature documents–no one but you and me has a vested interest in the matter–is that it’s all void for unconscionable paperwork. You can’t call any piece of it a contract for personal, family, and household purposes. Wrongly, laws of commerce are being applied to what you, my Son and I intended ONLY for personal, family., and household purposes–NOT BUSINESS PURPOSE. This is the KEY fact that was NOT disclosed that makes TILA rescission accessible to us, any time. As natural person consumers, we cannot and do not ever waive or deny our rescission right.

    My advice, yes advice, for educational purposes, is leave off paying for all the complexities (your still paying LAWYERS!!! to lose your case) and stand ONLY as a natural person consumer who intended ONLY to buy a homestead for personal, family, and household purposes. You made that known in the very first conversation, and thereafter, with the person who was facilitating the “loan” as a commercial loan, for business purposes, without your knowledge. Therefore, without full knowledge and informed consent you unwittingly signed commercial documents. That note and deed of trust or mortgage is replete with violations when applied to a natural person consumer acting only for personal, family, and household purposes. READ IT ALL AGAIN, AND AGAIN, AND AGAIN.

    I’ve been wondering for years and years why LAWYERS are not saying what I just said and saving people, families, and homesteads from the clutches of lying, thieving, desolation. I can guess at the reason. I can discern the reason from Scripture that it’s all in the heart of every man, male/female, participant who is contrary to his neighbor’s best interest, for unjust enrichment and more.

    When LAWYERS keep feeding us the “complexities” it guarantees their hire in some way. Have you ever read in the law, “the least sophisticated..” consumer”. More lies and oppression. Maybe some truly don’t know. Most do!!! A LAWYER is an actor, generally, an officer of the court, a court jester (take that any way you want to). A lawyer gave me a little book of “Lawyer Jokes” some years ago, saying that it accurately portrays the trade. He is one who practices with his hands in his own pockets. He takes pay when he succeeds for his client, which is MOST of the time.

    Believers in God Yehovah and His new man to whom He has given dominion of earth and us with him, hold on to your faith and good works. Judgment is turning God’s way.

    Here we are with all our different experience, and some of us even more than the lawyer/judge. We are riveted to one legal issue, one arena for justice and equity. We are here to learn what we can, to support one another as given opportunity, to sharpen each other’s swords–“iron sharpening iron”. None of this is very comfortable, though necessary and desirable. Take occasional rest along the way. Remember, joy comes in the morning–as light rises above the horizon.

    It’s now nearly ten years since I took up this cross in 2007 to follow Jesus. My reward is sure by him from Yehovah, who magnifies Himself through our faithfilled lives of Love. Expect your reward. Keep it before your mind, in your heart. Judgment is Yehovah God’s throne.

    TrespassUnwanted, MN, and Bubble, thank you again for giving a fairly accurate portrayal of what the initiated can expect and must do.

    AnonymousNortheast, thank you again for hearing me with your heart, for listening to Yehovah God’s thoughts on the matter, for accurately stating my plea and reasons. Done well for us all, even for the other three.

    Remember, Yehovah God is blessing us all by Jesus Christ.

    It’s now 6:40 am. No sleep since yesterday morning, preparing for court and entwining with you for your benefit, which benefits all of us.

    If I misstated or missed something, please forgive. No harm intended to anyone. Thank you, again, Neil, for your contributions to us.


    “A man who represents himself,
    has a lawyer with his best interest in mind.”
    – Bocetti

  5. Reblogged this on California Freelance Paralegal.

  6. MN & Trespass … Thank you. May God Bless us and protect us in this battle.

  7. AnonymousNortheast

    Go to the talkshoe website and look up Dallas Debt Discussion.
    The people on there talk about foreclosures all the time.

    There is a website you can join but if you want to be overwhelmed with the task at hand, once you join, ‘everything’ you wanted to be pointed to is there.

    Thing is, no one will do the legwork, because it’s education, and no one is attorneys.

    So even putting it all in one place, you’ll ask a question, get an answer, and guess what?

    You’ll be told to learn your local court rules, look on Pacer to find cases to mimic to get a start, learn court procedure, learn when to object, and how to answer, and how to schedule your case, and keep it moving, how to respond to motions to dismiss, and the whole nine yards, and some people are fighting a long time.

    We are all cordial here, not mean because we all have been chewed on by the beast.

    If I gave you a template and you filed it.
    You’d still need to know how to pay for certificate of service, and how to schedule things and communicate with the other side, negotiate extensions, despose witnesses, what to ask, pay for a court reporter, all kinds of stuff.

    It’s a wild world out there.
    Seek and ye shall find.
    We have mentioned National Consumer Law Center, Google Scholar, and even talkshoe (add a .com and look for that group by searching those three words.)

    Fighting this is like going back to college, and if you never been, it’s like going to college while on the fire escape and there’s a fire and someone’s saying, here’s the book, use the index, find the page for fire extinguisher, read that, then see if you have one.

    That’s really how it is.

    Be calm if you can, the end of the world has been predicted since forever.

    This is a very stressful time, and some people cannot handle it well.

    We know.

    Trespass Unwanted, Creator, Corporeal, Life, Free, People, Independent, State, In Jure Proprio, Jure Divino

  8. Wednesday 11 May 2016


    I am not taking this personally, at all. If you would like an example of
    someone who is, re-read your last response and, once again, the “personal”
    accusations you inaccurately level at me. Wherever do you get your

    I did attempt to share with you, previously, and then realized I did not
    see one of your qualifying words. In an attempt to recover, I offered to
    address something specific, and you never did.

    That was okay by me.

    >Why are you so reluctant to show anyone a sample of anything ?

    A sample of what? Your requests are all over the place.

    >Go look it up yourself ??

    Never said to go look it up yourself. What I, even others have said, is to
    read decided cases on how judges ruled in favor of and in opposition to,
    so that you will learn how to focus on where you want to go.

    >That’s not very nice is it?

    Your sounding like the victim is wearing thin. If you do not want to do
    even the basic legwork that will lead to more intelligent questions on
    this site, never put yourself in front of a judge if you want to experience
    what is not “very nice.”

    >when somebody is out of time??

    Last time. I invited you to ask anything specific. When you had the
    opportunity, and apparently with time running out, you ignored it.

    I must not have been “very nice” about it.

    Simple question: Do you know anything about local court procedures?
    Judges let lawyers win on procedures, not law.

  9. Nobody is claiming that Neil has not provided a great site with a wealth of information.

    It’s like Neil has provided a fire escape plan and we are all trapped inside a burning high rise building. Some of us are simply asking questions to expedite our escape because we might be in a more life threatening situation than you, we might have the flames of the fire blocking our only known escape, while you might be in a different situation where there is no immediate threat at your door. So when a person cries out for help it is because they do not have the luxury of time to walk the hallways looking for other escapes …they are asking for help ..simple general terms that do not require anyone to give specific answers ..just general answers and direction to survive. Like if your escape is being prevented …you might want to consider this as an alternative … Do this …and state something like this in your motion or objection …these are things that we learned …and we want to share them with you.

    The sharing is simply general information and strategy ..and it may not apply to each specific case …but it is a life-long that we learned from years of researching this plight.

    Helping others in general terms is not asking too much and should not be met with such hostility. Its like yelling at the victim who is perched on the ledge ..yelling that he should have researched the fire escape plan before he got trapped … But if you know of a possible move he can make…tell him …and give a simple general explanation of how to do it. This is common courtesy to your fellow man. Yelling at him to go research the fire escape plans on the website and look for a solution that best fits his situation ? Some victims are in need of immediate solutions that might preserve them to fight another day …have a heart, if you know something that could help them…offer a tip and tell them. If they are struggling to understand …be patient and spell it out in easy to understand terms …not everybody is capable of reading case law and able to convert it into their own pleading or motion.

    We need some generic samples and templates along with simple easy to understand explanations about what the gist of the argument is. And then after that…yes, it is up to the individual to pick and choose his own path, and to write it specific to his own case facts.

    Think of it like a graph ..of a visual aid … a diagram tree …that explains the basic concepts of the battle …

    It starts here ….

    If this happens, then these are usually your two best options…

    If option A is not available to you, then assert option B….

    If the plaintiff motions to dismiss ….state this in your reply…

    If during the hearing plaintiff states this ….OBJECT…

    IF THEY SAY “THIS” ….. OBJECT !!!!

    File this if that happens .. And always file thisispf this happens ..

    Do you see ??? Its a basic strategy, a concept of how to respond to certain things that will come up during most cases …

    Nobody is blaming Neil or others …we are just trying to ask that we all as a group try to consolidate and simplify the general strategy …from all that we have learned individually and collectively.

    That’s all …no reason to get irritated …no reason to accuse others of not researching enough … This isn’t an individual contest to see which of us prevails first .. This is a collective battle where we all need to share what we know with each other. I’m sorry this is being taken the wrong way. Maybe I’m doing a poor job explaining what my vision is, a vision to create a battle plan in general, that people can look to for options …that they might consider …things they never knew or ever read.

    If you were giving general advice to a loved one …and you gave tips so as to make them aware of certain dangers …and how to react if something happens .. This is what we need in the foreclosure defense world … Good tips and knowledge shared on what we have all learned.

    Nothing has to be case specific .. Just generalities to consider and samples of these general moves …templates showing a generic pleading or motion describing the legal move.

    Okay … I said my peace and I’ll drop it now. God Bless all of us.

  10. @Beryl et al: Neil and other expert contributors have been most gracious with the time, effort and experience they have freely shared throughout the years. It is incumbent upon us all to roll up our sleeves and do the research and work that Trespass Unwanted alluded to. There are no panaceas, silver bullets or guaranteed outcomes in this unfolding saga!

    I’m in Federal District court right now fighting pro se with a sound TILA Rescission argument as my main weapon. Admittedly, it has been a tough road to hoe. I credit much of the information I have gleaned from this site along with my own personal research of cases in Pacer and using Google Scholar with helping keep me in the fight up to this point. Neil’s consultations have also been very beneficial!!

    I guess what I am trying to say is: do all that you can do, collaborate with others, get your ducks in a row and then seek help. Nobody is serving up solutions on a silver platter (template). That is the harsh reality of the situation. One reason I surmise for that is that because there is not a one size fits all solution available for the most part.

    The following is one case that should provide you the type of “how to” post-Jesinoski example of a pleading that “might” help you survive a motion to dismiss on the pleadings or motion for summary judgment where TILA Rescission is the chief argument for the homeowner:

    Paatalo v. JPMorgan Chase Bank, 2015 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 153105, **12-13 (D. Oregon 2015).

  11. mn … You are taking it too personal .. nobody is here to fight with you over how brilliant you or and how much more a quick study you are on the legal issues. Did you ever consider that maybe you have been blessed with a greater ability to fathom these things? They might come more easily to you, have you ever considered that? Your whining and complaining about having to possibly help your fellow man understand something is like you standing in the middle of a library that has no card catalogue or dewey decimal system ..and when others come in looking for a specific book … you tell them to go look thru the piles of books on the floor and do what the rest of us do, we spend hours looking through piles of books !!

    You don’t seem to understand the simple common sense things some of us are talking about .. in your over analytical mind you perceive us as being beneath you ..not as good as you .. lazy … don’t want to look thru the piles of books on the floor like the rest of us did ..???

    Maybe you are an engineer ?? You think differently ..not a bad thing, but you need to realize and appreciate that we are not all wired the same way .. we all bring things to the table that are useful and make sense .. you are just missing our point. You see things differently.

    Why are you so reluctant to show anyone a sample of anything ?

    Sharing and helping is a good thing .. we are all on the same team.

    Go look it up yourself ?? That’s not very nice is it? when somebody is out of time??

  12. I am not an attorney but I have had some success with looking at other areas than TILA. I have found that RESPA and FDCPA can prove helpful in dealing with your opposition. If you were to look at the National Consumer Law Center, they have a chart of RESPA violations.
    I would start out by sending your opposition Qualified Written Requests by Certified Mail, Return Receipt Requested. The CFPB revised RESPA effective in 2014, shortening the time for your opposition to answer and establishing monetary penalties for failure.

  13. Wednesday 11 May 2016


    There is a wealth of information on this site, available equally to all.
    Apparently, some of us avail ourselves of its constructive use than
    others, and the others who choose not to, keep asking for answers
    already [for the most part], here.

    Trespass Unwanted addressed your concerns, twice, yet you still ask
    the same questions. You can get some very specific information that
    is specific to your case by doing exactly what Trespass suggested, by
    reading other cases, both winning and losing.

    You will find reasons for why judges rules against [mostly judicial
    prejudice], and can find cases cited within the cases you read in order
    to expand your search and drill down to what you want. In addition,
    when reading cases, you will also learn how to present your own case

    In my last post to you, I invited you to ask something specific that I might
    address. You declined.

    You wrongly categorized me in a group to which I do not belong. Prior
    to reading about rescission, presented by Garfield in this site, I knew
    nothing about it. I have said this before, if not to you, then others: I have
    read and re-read the articles available on rescission. I have listened to
    Neil’s radio shows on the same topic, repeatedly and taking copious notes.
    In fact, it was Trespass Unwanted that alerted me to the value of
    listening to his broadcasts in one of her comments.

    I took the initiative to listen and learn. I expressed, a few times, in
    general, anyone interested in rescission has as much information
    as needed from what is available here. More will be had in reading more
    cases pertaining to rescission.

    Are you unable to find the information available, or just not willing to do
    what it takes to learn?

    I am truly puzzled by your same requests when most of the answers
    are already available, much of it on this site.


  14. Neil, this is only if the Plaintiff also files discovery along with the filing of the recission complaint. Being the Plaintiff, you have the burden of proof to prove up the negative, which is nearly impossible unless you have all the documentation of accounting that the douchebag banksters will never release.

  15. What I believe some of us are talking about is the need for a more general overview type of blueprint on how to fight the good fight. We are not asking for specific arguments to our own particular cases. We are not asking for anyone as specific legal advice pertaining to our individual cases, but only a framework from which we might stand a better chance on appeal.

    There have been many recent and evolving revelations in this fight for justice and it would be a wise thing if these new learned things could be kept in a useful type of format that might help people understand how to properly form their game plan. Nothing specific, just generalities that have been learned along the way.

    A sample pleading or motion would just be a general framework which would include the proper language , which might result in a better chance for a favorable outcome on appeal.

    The overall strategy does not have to be case specific, it would be up to the pro we defendant to articulate and graft his own set of facts into the legal theory and argument.

    The point is to arm the victims with a better strategy to go into the battlefield with. …right now the enemy courts are destroying us before we can even reach the beaches …the framework and samples would be like the air campaign coming in with heavy bombs , which are the proper type of pleadings and strategies at the outset of the war …and then as we enter the courtrooms for oral arguments, at least the general pleadings have already been correctly laid out in the pleadings …this seems to be half the battle where most are lost.

  16. National Consumer Law Center

    O’connor’s Rules of Federal Procedures.

    scribd by subscription of some kind.


    google scholar – for legal searches.

    No one can give legal advice, unless they have a BAR card, that’s why so many have to give the disclaimer when typing opinions, not conclusions of law nor statements of fact.

    No one can give the examples that will suit your situation, but if you look at real cases and see who won what part, you can use those winning parts to put together your case.

    It’s hard as heck, that’s why so many do not know.

    I wish I knew, but even if I did, from a universal perspective, in the cosmic scheme of things, I could not give you the ‘answers’ to the test.

    On a spiritual perspective, whatever you seek, you find.
    Whatever you desire, it is given to you.

    If you do not know how to use those powers, and consider yourself helpless or a victim, that is also given to you.

    I don’t know what else to say.
    I don’t know a thing any way.
    I learned to let go of the things that were taken from me against my free will, and no I didn’t lose. So much of me won, and so much of those that stole from me is lost. A time will come when they face their maker and believe me in the cosmic scheme of things, some papered material with ink, and a few years of physical life obtaining it, is just really not worth it for what judgment lies ahead,

    Man did not create the earth, yet man will rob each other for claims of ownership of things not created. We may think we are advanced, but we are lower than cavemen in how we handles each other’s right to life and property.

    Those resources are there, and unfortunately, so are the cases in courts that have won, and the language that was used to win, and the opinions of the judges who decided there was a wrong and fixed it.

    Trespass Unwanted, Creator, Corporeal, Life, Free, Independent, State, In Jure Proprio, Jure Divino

  17. Beryl …. I agree with you and have asked the same question regarding people sharing templates and consolidating the game plan into something that might help people. It falls on deaf ears. This site has years of articles and thousands of comments …it’s overwhelming and a waste of all that great knowledge that it remains hidden and buried under a mountain of writings and comments. All of the issues have probably been discussed and debated in the comments sections, but what we all need is for all of the good info to be condensed and put together in a way that people can benefit from the years of research and discussions.

    Just simple, generic templates …

    *** How to record your rescission (show a generic sample)

    *** What your answer should state in it…counterclaim? (sample)

    *** how to correctly present your rescission to a court (sample)

    **** how to articulate for injunction, declaratory judgment, etc.(sample)

    Affidavits, objections, motions, complaint, etc. …generic samples

    This would be beneficial for everyone because it would help flood the courts with more properly pled answers, complaints, motions, etc.

    The more good cases we have …the better chance odpf success for all of us …we all benefit when we help each other.

  18. Beryl,

    Contact that District court, if you live near any District Court, go there, take the time and go there and ask the clerk to show you how to view any documents from a foreclosure, and they have computers and will show you how to use them and to open documents and to see these things.
    They are public record, so if you want copies, for a fee, they’ll make them for you, and for a fee they will certify them for you.

    If there is any state codes that you are including in your document, you can get certified copies from the Secretary of the State and use them in your case. You have to have enough copies for yourself, the judge, and the opposing side or it will not be admissible. You may need to make sure there is a copy to file with the clerk too. No ambushing. Certified copies from your own court case is also useful and remember, everyone that needs to see it, must have a copy ready, not one of those asking for leave of court to bring what you should be prepared to show, and know others need to see. (not trying to be rude, but trying to be direct to catch your attention, as if everyone is selfish, and you can’t share the document, everyone has to have their own copy to see what you want to show, if it’s not already on file before the case begins.

    I don’t have much advice beyond that. If you need an extension of time, ask the clerk if you can get it. Ask, ask, ask, and it shall be given to you, seek and you shall find, knock and the door will be open.

    Sounds crazy but if you do none of those things, how do you know what is available to you, and you should ask for that extension before the day of the case, to give everyone enough notice but I don’t know how much in advance you have to ask or how many times you asked already to where this time the answer is a resounding no, you can’t have more time.

    Be well, be calm, and everything happens for a reason, whether we know what the reason is now, in this corporeal body we are using or in the ethereal realms of the spirit world where we look back and say, oh wow, now i see!

    Trespass Unwanted, Creator, Corporeal, Life, Free, People, Independent, State, In Jure Proprio, Jure Divino.

  19. I am not a lawyer. I do not know legal things and would not want to.

    Why aren’t people reading prior cases to see why the rescission is being ignored. I’m sure the court in their “opinion” [opinions are protected speech] are stating why they ignored, did not review, would not accept the rescission.

    In one month I’ve learned a lot about the case cites from my appeals court, and supreme court. After all my searching and seeing tthe elements needed and missing for any cause of action, and reasons for affirming and denying and remanding cases, there is much someone can learn.

    If I only knew about filing for an extension of time, I would not have had my property stolen in 21 days. But the average adult has no clue of all the rules of any court while trying to tell someone they can’t steal their real property.

    My other question would be, why is there no affidavit accompanying these cases to affirm what is not to be presumed.

    Under penalty of perjury, there is no loan. If the defendant has any papers that appear to be a loan, it was never consummated because there is no loan. I don’t know legal things so I can’t tell anyone how to put the information in an affidavit. I don’t know how to write an affidavit, but I do know someone’s writing one with all that, to the best of my knowledge stuff and we did not dispute or deny or reject or whatever the mess is they put in their paper.

    Some of their affidavits are not signed, or they are notarized and not signed, where the notary is supposed to be notarizing the ‘invisible’ signature, cause there is no visible signature.

    Some show power of attorney from people who do not have agency for the company, and can’t make any corporate decisions for it.

    It’s pure nonsense, that we get stuck on one thing.

    When I read some of the appeals issues, the only thing that was appealable was the things brought up in court AND objected to in court.

    So you throw in the kitchen sink, have a good case in regular court, and then on appeal have on argument that you objected to on the record, and the appeals court walks all over you because the argument is ‘missing that Umph!’ so you fail to state a claim for which relief can be granted and they agree with a lower court.

    If you objected to everything, I mean how the heck do you agree with anything they say when your case has all the things they did wrong, and if you objected to all their lies, all of your items make it to the next stage, and the appeals court can see the case sometimes, there are things they review de novo, [as a new trial]. They say so in their ‘opinions’ and rulings, which things are reviewed de novo in their court.

    When there are multiple arguments, they may affirm some, deny some, but all you need is to win on something and have it remanded back to the lower court to fix it.

    If I’d known I’d be pulled into a foreign language to save my right to property, I’d have learned this stuff while I was attending school.

    I probably would have practiced my first case on my first traffic ticket or something just to go through the process and win.

    Needless to say, rescission is not the only thing they do wrong.
    Read that darn paper. Mine had no reason for having a substitute trustee self appoint their self. I brought is up in my answer, but did not know anything more.

    For me, it’s not over. Fraud does not have a statue of limitations, and to hear that case where that attorney argued something that was older than 6 years based on fraud on the court, gave me encouragement that fraud vitiates everything.

    I just need more time to figure out how to word it, and I’m back into the fray.

    Trespass Unwanted, Creator, Corporeal, Life, Free, People, Independent, State, In Jure Proprio, Jure Divino

  20. Reblogged this on Anthony Jerdine.

  21. Neil, will you please provide SUCCESSFUL pleadings samples and cases for TILA rescission enforcement? It will be a great service for many of us, especially since we have not been able to find competent attorneys in our jurisdictions, or a competent attorney who is willing to take the case–not on overload. Therefore, we have to go pro se. Even an attorney who is willing to provide limited representation by writing or co-writing our TILA rescission enforcement will be a huge help.

    Your post on 2/20/2016 provided the likes for foreclosure defense. Really appreciate that. Now we need what I state above.

    Such help might lead to some donations, in spite of the facts that no public legal education is provided and courts and lawyers reject that idea in order to maintain their exclusive club against the people, thereby “breaking” the people, and although in every lawyer’s oath he (male/female) swears to provide some pro bono work, MOST NEVER DO! By the way, a good pro bono attorney CAN GET PAID FOR SUCCESSFULLY DOING HIS JOB. Pro bono representation is probably the best test of a sincere, honest, genuinely caring and concerned attorney.

    Why does the world revolve around the lawyer and court trades? Things are so corrupt that nobody buys or sells anything today without a “legal” agreement, even if the product is free.

    Looking forward to a quick reply from you or other writers here to request for well-written, successful, or in process TILA rescission enforcement cases, sample pleadings, templates.

    Injured as many of us are from years, 9+ in our case, of lawyer and court abuse (CFOs, servicers, etc., are mostly lawyers; agreements, Deeds of Trusts, Notes, foreclosures, etc., are all written by lawyers; tax laws are written by lawyers (and none are rightly applied to people on their own land for personal, family, and household purposes).

    I’ve been researching, rereading much of your stuff and others’, to come up with the best TILA rescission enforcement, with all the damages possible, but don’t even know yet how to title the document. You’ve provided some help and insights, but not samples of an actual winning document (maybe I missed it) or cases (maybe I’ve missed them). If you could please put all this in one post as links, you’d be worth your weight and more for donations.

    My TILA rescission enforcement document must be filed this Thursday 5/12 in US Washington Western District. Therefore, I don’t have time to re-read this to make it, perhaps, more acceptable. I hope you can empathize and sympathize with my dear torn family and our 9+ years abuse situation.

    Neil, please understand that all your non-lawyer (and maybe some lawyer) readers going through the hell of lawyer-induced threats and actual losses of home, family, money, opportunities, and enjoyments of lief for nearly a decade, may, like myself, be unwillingly divided in opinions of respect for you personally and disdain to near hatred for you personally as a lawyer. One element spiking the latter–disdain to hatred–are your pleas to us that we must remember that lawyers need to make a living, so we ought to pay them, even be glad to pay them. As they set in motion the entire contrivance to steal our homes, our lives, our families, our wealth!

    Odd as it may seem, Neil, I send this with heartfelt Love (believe it or not) and prayers, for you and your family personally, and with prayers that those of the lawyering/judicial trade will now step up to stop, fix, and create methods to reverse the money and land-grab lies, theft, murder and suicide inducements, and destruction (those four factors describe the man who is enemy to his fellowmen in John 10:10), and restore and remedy to the furthest extent possible their carnage on their fellowmen, in the spirit of that greatest of all men–“I am come that they might have life, and that they might have more abundantly” (John 10:10). Every man can read down through verse 17 and hear God tell him personally which man he is.

    A liar, a thief, a murderer and inducer of suicide, a destroyer, will lose all he obtains from those deeds, and far more, more than he ever could imagine.

    A benefactor to his fellowmen is the most blessed of his good deeds.

    Beryl W

  22. Division II of Washington Court of Appeals dislikes Jesinoski…refuses to apply CR 60 to revisit Summary Judgment for TILA relief  

    SANDLIN LAW FIRM, P.S. P.O. Box 228 Zillah, Washington 98953 (509) 829-3111/594-8702/fax: (888) 875-7712 (licensed attorney in State of Washington)

        Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 12:41 PM From: "Livingliess Weblog" <> To: Subject: [New post] Realities of Rescission Litigation

    <!–a:hover { color: red; } a { text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0,136,204); } a.primaryactionlink:link, a.primaryactionlink:visited { background-color: rgb(37,133,178); color: rgb(255,255,255); } a.primaryactionlink:hover, a.primaryactionlink:active { background-color: rgb(17,114,158); color: rgb(255,255,255); }

  23. “Their singular problem might be revealed — that they don’t have an identified creditor and they have no way of finding the creditor because the money for the loans actually came from a dynamic dark pool.”

    Agreed … so how and where do we reveal their singular problem?

    I believe the best court to fight against the [alleged] creditor is the federal bankruptcy court. Rescission can be applied and argued in the bankruptcy court, just the same … can’t it?

  24. Would this be done before or after Final Judgment? I’m thinking a Judge would be inclined to join (forget the legal term) the two cases if both were active at the same time, especially if one were to motion to hold the foreclosure case until the other were decided.

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