Fl 4th DCA Finds HSBC Has No Standing to Foreclose and Attacks the Credibility of Robo-witnesss

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This is not legal advice on your case. Consult a lawyer who is licensed in the jurisdiction in which the transaction and /or property is located.

 SO here we have the 4th DCA getting close the 2d DCA opinion posted yesterday. You have the non-existent American Broker’s Conduit as “originator”, Wells Fargo playing the part of servicer, and HSBC playing the part of Trustee for a Trust that never received the loan. Hence there was no owner and no servicer, whose rights derive from the terms of the trust (but since the trust didn’t own the loan, the servicer had no rights to service that loan).
Once again in another DCA in Florida the courts are asking “where’s the beef?” If the transactions are not real or disclosed then how is the court to treat documents that “talk about” the transactions as if there were real purchases and sales of the loans and loan documents.
The reason why there are no such proffers of real evidence is that there is no real evidence. The banks are faking it. And they have been quite successful in nearly 8 million foreclosures. Finally the courts are refusing to be used as tools in the largest economic crime in human history. We have turned the corner. Anyone who loses these cases at the trial level should take it up on appeal — if they have the resources and they have an adequate record on appeal. Remember that Standing is a jurisdictional issue and you can raise jurisdiction at any time, including on appeal, for the first time.
And there is no doubt that standing is the burden of the party who is asserting standing. It is not on the borrower to show that the foreclosing party lacks standing. It is up to the foreclosing party to prove a prima facie case with real evidence and without presumptions that shows that possession of the note was the result of a real transaction or that they have received authorization from someone who had possession of the note with rights to enforce, which means that they in turn received the note or the rights to enforce from the party who is the actual creditor. Under normal circumstances, there would be no doubt that the bank would need to show and even want to show that the transactions were real. The fact they they are fighting iit could only mean one thing — the entire chain is fabricated, forged and a total sham.
The problem is that Judges, lawyers and even borrowers are still having trouble with the notion that the banks would come to court without any reason for being there except greed. The banks come to court because they have successfully barred the real creditor from knowing about and participating in any efforts to collect on the money advanced by investors, who are the real creditors. So there is nothing to stop the banks from lying to borrowers, lawyers, judges and even appellate courts because they are the only ones who know the real story.

22 Responses

  1. N, sounds interesting and promising. There are many things going on behind the scenes and not every powerful entity wants the U.S. to go down the tubes.

  2. @louise ,

    Believe it or not Alan Greenspan is fighting on our side… http://www.roadtoroota.com/public/101.cfm

  3. Totally agree, MK. All mega banks need to go and so does the Federal(not) Reserve(not).

  4. @ louise, @ Hammertime,

    People in fraudclosure are uniquely situated to defy and disrupt this phony, criminal scam.

    It is a deliberate attack on the Sovereignty of the American people.

    It is a deliberate, “Boom-and-Bust Cycle”.

    The “Boom” is always a con game wherein banks offer low interest.
    The “Bust” is always their next play: jacking up the rates until the victims disgorge their assets to keep them at bay.

    Any mere glimpse of history demonstrates this is the central banking paradigm.

    You needn’t be an economics major to describe how these greedy freaks have manipulated humankind through the ages.

    It is why the American Revolutionaries showed great Britain to the door ages ago.

    The good news is that the “Greenback”, as a viable, presently-existing currency, can be brought into play as soon as possible.

    The bad news is people predisposed to attempt to come to grips with the “Fiat v Commodity” argument are hopelessly distracted by the notion there is enough silver of gold to lend value to our money.


    Therefore, a “fiat currency” is the only answer… except… PAPER MONEY MUST COEXIST WITH AND ENJOY PROTECTION UNDER THE RULE OF LAW.

    The bankers are a self-anointed crowd of megalomaniacs predisposed to believe they are necessary to the financial concerns of the rest of US.


    They have destroyed themselves and their industry is so completely rank with fraud it is absurd to suggest they are worthy of anything beyond a short length of rope and a long fall.

  5. Louise agree people need to take action the storm ahead is gonna be nasty but we could help change the course.

  6. Losing… you hit the nail on the head. Exactly what we’ve all been going through. It’s time to take it a step further and educate others no matter the results from this corrupted chapter in our history. I would focus on law though and focus on the specific fraud committed against us and be firm in our convictions like the banks have been to be able to fool everyone.

  7. MK, I think IMHO that they do not want the currency destabilized aka the American Petrodollar. However, the rest of the planet is sick of the US destroying other peoples’ countries and killing their innocent civilians and stealing their resources. War is the last thing the US can do to prevent the dollar from collapsing. From what I am reading all over the Internet in differing types of websites that September 2015 is going to be very stormy, and you need to take your money out of the bank and buy silver and gold and bury it. I agree wholeheartedly with your remaining statements. Or, it could be a little of both. In any event, the banksters are starting to panic and bailment is their way out. Bailment means they go into depositors accounts and take out money to cover their asses.

    As to holders in due course, the banksters and servicers have been keeping that secret, because they are stealing the money. None of them have a right to accept money from anyone with a mortgage, because it was securitized and securitization failed, and the trusts are empty.

  8. Show me the money that is the answer. and all appropriate trnasactions in between. aka full chain of title to take someone’s home in court, thats it!!!! anything less is like someone phot copying the note, printing the mortgage/deed of trust and then foreclosing. to long the judges have been on the banks sides thinking homeonwers are deadbeats. The banks are responsible for this. they have been telling people by the millions, every bank, you must be 90 days late to apply for hamp loan, then once 90 days late when the homeowner applies they deny, deny , deny. then when the homeowner writes elected officials for help the banks write these long letters with dates and all when they sent letters ect and they never received the correct documents. bascially telling lies to elected officals. homeowners feel like they are in a rod sterlings twilight zone movie that does not want to end. How can a bank lie and tell peopel they never sent the documents when the people have the proof but the judge does not care??? why are judges not asking for credit scores to show up the banks. many homeowners i speak to followed the banks direction of not paying the 90days, but to be late on other bills continued to pay all other bills on time. so the credit report looks like this, all other bills onltime, mortgage late????who in the right mind would do that with out direction from the bank???WHO??????????????????? credit cards are unsecured loans???? wouldnt someone stop paying credit cards and pay thier mortgage. there is something flipping wrong withthis country. i think its time, our parents and grandparents didnt know what was happening but now we all shoudl know.



    our parents didnt know about the bankrupt USA and they this fractional reserve system and how the federal reserve uses our future earnings as “money”,
    that all debt is money
    its time to stop stop this return our country back to normal.
    PLEASE it is time to share this it is not about foreclosures its about making more debt.

  9. The only country on this planet that can still speak truth to power is the US.

    The internet is under attack by the same criminal clowns that manipulate our media.

    Corporations ARE NOT PEOPLE.

    The Tea Party of Revolutionary War Fame deliberately dumped some 100’s of tons of Tea into Boston Harbor because it belonged to a foreign Corporatocracy.

    They dressed as Indians, not to evade detection, but, to prove a point.

    As Colonial Revolutionaries, against a corrupt, central banking system, they were demonstrating that the indigenous tribes were possessed of “Liberty” and “Free” of the restraints of the old, corrupt, English banking, self-anointed, phony Aristocracy and FRAUD.

    Look at an “Indian Head Penny”. Frankly, it is inaccurate to describe it as such.

    Instead, the correct description is “A Lady Liberty Head Penny”.

    the coin was minted to celebrate Lady Liberty sporting an Indian Headdress.

    the point they were trying to make is that the US is “Free” of Old-World Corporate interests.

    Of course We have forgotten all of that as well and nowadays fast food chains like 7-11 celebrate the slogan: “America loves the “Freedom” of 7-11″.


    7-11 is a “convenience store”.

    Countless Patriots gave their lives for the concept of “freedom”.

    It is obscene a convenience store chain nowadays uses a sacred word in such a fashion.

  10. The banks are not a “National Security Issue” as they currently exist; except to say, “They have placed the Sovereignty of the American Dollar at risk”.

    They have created a hyper-inflationary scheme to debase and degrade the American People.

  11. The American dollar is their target. They are fixing to destabilize our currency.

    The central bankers are the subversives and any politician that sides with them are the enemy.

    The pension plans are de-funded. The “Trusts” are EMPTY.

    The central banks think We The People are stupid and beyond understanding We have been duped.

    HSBC and Wells Fargo are using American mortgages to launder drug and terrorist cartel money.

  12. The National Mortgage Settlement consent judgments were agreements betw lenders and state Attorney Generals. They agreed to Comply with specific guidelines including chain of title and foreclosure documents not addressed by state law so there would be no criminal charges.

    We are being told by banks,lawyers and bureaucrats that settlements were only about dual tracking and robosigning. But robosigning isn’t just about forgeries but personal knowledge. Unbroken chain of title, money trail as NG states, along with robosigning all apply to standing.

    Settlements another case where we are bowing to banks and their gov’t beneficiaries instead of looking at what the agreements, law and truth actually is.

    And Chase and others are getting the thumbs up from the monitor Joseph Smith if we don’t use them and stay quiet.

  13. Without meeting the elements of standing…they have no standing to invoke the jurisdiction of the court.

    And you know nothing because no body proves something…

    Unless you give it to them…….

    I know nothing….but what do I know If I know nothing?

    I know I do not need to defend myself …from myself.
    That would be like beating myself up.

  14. Wrongful claims of Standing was removed from the settlements and handled under state law.

  15. And Dwight…because of those presumptions of standing…
    The RPII was harmed….the homeowners and the borrowers were harmed.

    So now borrower and other tenants /granters who wants to convey title in a transaction has issues to clear up….and the title insurers want the financial records that do not exist.

  16. Dwight – thumbs up!

  17. Thanks DNJ, great explanation. You hit all the major points in this issue. Robosigning and settlements attack the false docs head on as does TILA. It seems lawyers have missed the boat and if judges are coming around borrower’s need to quit letting banks, lawyers get away with the presumptions that bank, loan is legit.

  18. I think what NG means by making it a jurisdictional issue is … The foreclosure court has no jurisdiction over a complaint unless the plaintiff can establish that they have “Standing” to proceed. This is where all of the trickery and smoke and mirrors is done , the courts have been allowing mere “holders” of the alleged note to proceed as if they are holders in due course. Meaning, the courts have given the servicers the benefit of the doubt , which is “Presumptions”. This is clearly wrong because presumptions are intended for HIDC.

    As mere “holders” .. there should be NO presumptions. As plaintiffs it is their burden to present proof that they are the Real Party In Interest, tat they have proof of a valid transaction from it s origination, all the way thru all of its sales and transfers .. and who, how and why it ended up in their possession with rights to enforce.

    Now the disturbing thing about the Florida case is that the DCA seems most concerned about them receiving a note with no endorsement in blank .. OK , that’s fine for that case … but what about the rest of us who have servicers coming forward with alleged notes that do have a blank endorsement? It is a known fact that they are fabricating the notes and the blank endorsements .. This raises the problem that the DCA in Florida would have allowed the fraud to survive if the bank had only fabricated the note by adding a fake endorsement in blank.

    Which means we are all still in trouble ..if the courts are still relying on these fabricated documents and instruments .. then we are screwed.

    The DCA should have said ..”regardless of the “note not having an endorsement in blank” , it is time we all acknowledge that the docs being submitted by these holders cannot be relied upon ..we need to see the entire chain of title with proof of all money transactions”.

    Until they demand the full accounting of the money trail , we are still stuck spinning our wheels ..because these banks will always resort to fraud and fabricating the documents .. at this point of the game, why should any court believe Wells Fargo walking into court as Holders of an alleged note that is allegedly endorsed in blank? We need the courts to get beyond this point of playing along with phony docs and pretending they are valid.

    Which brings us back to the beginning .. as NG points out .. Lets all start with jurisdiction .. Standing 101 .. Has the plaintiff truly shown that they have standing ?? This is the front lines of this war. Standing.

    And how does a court establish standing when fake, false docs are being used by the plaintiff? Common sense says the courts should not rely on any docs being presented by the plaintiffs , instead the courts should place the burden on the plaintiff of simply showing real proof of the valid origination of the debt .. all the way thru them receiving it, and all transactions in between .. proof of the money trail.

    This is what allows the court jurisdiction .. Standing , but standing that is proven by more than a fabricated document .. make them prove their standing thru a rigorous and thorough examination of the money trail.
    That would be the way for a plaintiff to prove they were harmed or that they have received the rights to enforce from the true party who has the rights. Right now the courts don’t even come close to this.

  19. Agree MK bureaucrats, politicians and borrower’s keep trusting banks either by shame or greed.

    For us lay people how is standing made a jurisdictional issue?

  20. The fraud is becoming very obvious and is coming to the top. Note that NG is talking about standing as a jurisdictional issue.which can be raised in appeal for the first time. Thank you, Neil. Will use that.

  21. I forgot to add:

    Investigate Wall Street, Prosecute Wall Street, Jail Wall Street.
    The central banks are NOT the government despite what the subversives would have US believe.

    Any politician attempting to rise from amidst the frauds that are his/her fellows, must be made to renounce the central banking paradigm.

    They must be made to deliver an accounting of how our money is created and circulated by a private group of thugs masquerading as representative of the best interests of the American People.

    Corporations are NOT people.

    Boutique wars for Corporate profit, are NOT in the best interests of the American People.

    Pray for the Greeks. The spark that was once in our keeping has now come into their possession and, should We The People begin to reclaim what has been stolen from US, We should endeavor to capitalize them before all others.

  22. The second act of the central bankers will be to devalue the American Dollar. This is what all the hysteria is about.

    We The people need to get a better grasp of the bigger picture.

    First, they defunded our pension plans while privatizing everything in sight: including the intentionally mislabeled “Federal Reserve”; neither “Federal” –while owned by private bankers, nor, owning ANY “Reserves”- our money is created out-of-thin-air.

    Next, they targeted and continue to target home ownership through legitimate, properly assigned and legally transferred titles to our homes.
    It is a deliberate attack on the Sovereignty of the American Dollar and the Sovereignty of the American People.

    In this article, Wells Fargo and HSBC bank are named as the phony, criminal, Pretenders.

    Wells Fargo and HSBC Bank have already proven they are using American mortgages to launder terrorist and drug cartel money…
    …Don’t believe me? Google it.

    The true Holders in Due Course are predisposed to remain anonymous in order to escape conviction when We The People begin to reestablish the rule of law.

    The answer, when the time comes is to reestablish the “Greenback” as an alternative to the wholly-corrupted and insolvent, phony, “Federal Reserve Notes”.

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