It is FACT not THEORY: Money Trail is a Trail of Facts; Paper Trail is a Trail of Lies

Neil F Garfield, July 1, 2013: Modification “experts” are criticizing what they see on this site. It gives them the willies to think that they are participating in a fraud or enabling a fraud when they modify a loan with someone who doesn’t own it. So lately they are saying that the articles here have been discredited in court decisions (not true) and that the “theories” described here lack credibility.

What we are talking about here is facts, not theory. Either the foreclosing party, modifying party, or party accepting the short sale owns the note or not — and the FACTS lead wherever they bring us, namely, that if they didn’t pay for the funding of the origination of the loan, they didn’t pay for the acquisition of the loan, and that they didn’t acquire servicing rights to the loan, the lack of standing (legal doctrine, not theory) is complete. The non-ability to submit a credit bid at auction is complete (state statutes, not theory). The liability for slander of title, abuse of process, fraud, forgery, and fabrication of documents describing non-existent transactions needs to be proven, and the damages must also be proven. But with a dismissal or judgment for borrower, the liability part of the case is fairly easy.

Whether you are buying, selling, refinancing, short-selling, modifying or in any way settling or resolving issues with a mortgage loan you do so at your own risk. Banks that offer refinancing are either part of the securitization scheme and are kicking the liability can down the road or they are ignorant of the risk elements of title and liability for a loan that is subject to securitization claims.

If you want to criticize, go ahead and do it. But all people need to know is they can ask the questions in litigation and get the answers and the facts are whatever they are — there is either a cancelled check or wire transfer receipt or there is nothing. If you want to know if it is hot outside, just stick your head out a window, if reading the thermometer is too theoretical for you.

It is often true that the borrower admitted the debt, the note, the mortgage and the default. The trial judge had no choice and neither did the appellate court. These cases come from the inexperience of the pro se litigant or the lawyer who has not researched all of the material.

Don’t get caught in a spitting match about my “theories” versus the rulings of some courts. This is all a work in progress and there are going to be conflict in rulings. One state may appear to give one set of rulings another state may seem just the opposite. the point is that if you are doing good lawyering you are following the facts wherever they take you. And what we are saying is that the money trail does not support the paper trail that the banks have fabricated forged or proffered.

For example: Go to eFANNIE site. They are boasting about funding even before allocating your whole loan commitment or MBS pool, so you can maximize your execution. TRANSLATION: we’ll give you the money before you have to come up with it in real time. The investors put up the money,then the loan applications are solicited, then the money is funded with investor money, then the originator reports the loan closing and assigns it without a paper assignment to the next party in the paper train (securitization) usually the aggregator who assigns them without an actual assignment to the CDO manager at the investment bank that created the mortgage bonds and sold them through a “third party” which was owned or controlled by the investment bank. The paper trail neither reflects nor follows the money trail.

Full Deposition of Angela Edwards “Robo-Verifier” as Servicer for the Plaintiff for Verification of Foreclosure Complaint“robo-verifier”-servicer-plaintiff-verificatio



Sales by Insiders AT BOA — RATS JUMPING SHIP? THE MARKET TRADERS ARE TAKING POSITIONS FOR A DEATH SPIRAL BY BOA: Somebody knows something… Rats are jumping ship

COURTS CAN RETURN PARTIES TO THEIR ORIGINAL POSITION: this would apply to cases where there is no default – through the “stop payment” script and through those who were actually paying. The Court can return the parties to the original position and wipe out arrears and fees.

INVESTIGATION: BOA TRIES SELLING OFF SERVICING RIGHTS TO AVOID LIABILITY (Remember just because they SAY they sold it doesn’t mean they did. We have seen several instances where BOA announced the loan or servicing rights or both were sold off but they were not and BOA ended up being the one “approving” the short-sale or modification).: GREEN TREE SERVICING AND BANK OF AMERICA

106 Responses

  1. Nice Todd!

  2. @ Poppy- hat tip. Do whatever is necessary to crush them with your foot on their jugular. I’ll do what it takes until I take my last breath. As long as the life insurance claim for my family is paid if they take me out, it’s open season on these pieces of sh….. One way or another dirtbag judges are going to be outed and accounted for. Hope NSA is picking up this transmission and indexing it. You have been Noticed. Good luck trying plausible deniability.

    When I worked in the oilfield as a deep sea diver many moons ago, these tools/idiots are referred to as “inch worms” as they wiggle along and hope to not get stepped on

  3. You bet…looking into filing a contempt charge against the trusts attorneys…and new rules for disgourgment (spelling?) from same attorneys, continuing to continue proceedings at the peril of other creditors, which I am. Too little claims left and fees to attorneys are $200-300,000.00 per month, when it is less expensive to pay the claims.

    All bull, using the legal system to intimidate and burn up the money, so they can say…oh all we have left is $200,000 for all of you to split, I don’t think so…let the games begin “bitches”. Thanks by the way

  4. @ Poppy, correct, even more important they made money off of you before a note/ mortgage or DOT was ever allegedly signed. People v. Looney and People v. Martinez support the fact that even a genuine signature to an instrument gotten through fraud is a forgery. Keep readers posted on outcome of your digging on those attys in CA. Feel free to skype me todd.wetzelberger or email Will gladly share resources that may help since we work in a lot of states incl. CA and have been through state and federal as well as BK court there several times, incl. UD. I actually flew from easy coast for a UD sham “trial” as the substitute trustee for the trust the real property was conveyed into by the homeowner. Brought former state atty, civil rights litigator, journalist Chris K. with me to cover the “trial” in case they tried to grab me. Crooked “commissioner” (not even real judge) Glenn Mondo (hope he reads this) threatened me, even though I was real party in interest, saw the baliffi coming out of corner of my eye and remember my wife saying “don’t get arrested 3,000 miles from home, I’m not coming to get you…”. They threatened Chris K as well that if he turned on his camera they would pull the “contempt” b.s. (that’s all they have) so we watched a donkey UD “trial” in Orange Co. CA. When Chris cornered the crooked process server who lied and said he served the homeowner, he ran from the camera. Keep the lights on these pieces of sh…… they hate that camera…

    Going to hearing in Montgomery Co. Circuit in Md @ 9:30am in morning for Atty Grievance Commission v. McDowell (Shapiro and Burson dirtbag atty) and I’m going to corner James Botluk, the Atty Griev Counsel who ducked me the last year after reporting all the crimes Thomas P. Dore committed and was covered up. Can’t wait to ge that video rolling when I look him eye to eye and ask why he’s been ducking me while the courts try to exert extreme “pressure” in me and family.

    Hang tough.

  5. @ Todd W

    Read the info in the hyperlink…okay, portioned out the loans…that makes good sense WHY no paper trail exists. They have no way to collect if the loan was pieced out, converted and sold…who the hell would be the Plaintiff?

  6. Here is evidence that your signature is worth a heck of a lot as a representation of your past, present, and future value. Otherwise why would Bank of America as assignee seek to patent the process for securitizing and/or syndicating purported “loan” applications including REJECTED applications. Who in their right mind would invest in a derivative backed by a worthless piece of paper (rejected application) with nothing more than a signature (your property) on that paper.

    It’s not about the note as we know, it never was. It’s about the signature and every time you give your unqualified or unrestricted signature the “user” of that signature can do with it what they please like any other property you unwittingly give away.

    Hope this shines a bright light and is enough evidence to help you back up your statements in those fraudclosure cases. Link on Scribd below

    It’s digitally marked up with important points, to save you the time going through the entire patent application

  7. Make the crooks show they ever had Possession of the Instrument … Converted the Instrument into their own Security…They can’t because banks don’t lend money.


    i HAVEN’T READ IT YET BUT how are they going to overcome mortgasge origination fraud prohibited by art 1 para 10 cl 1 of the us Constitution. ? Skip the Constitution all together?

  9. Here is something to do for you all! The CFPB has issued some new proposed rules for mortgages. You can give feedback to them up until July 22nd. 174 pages of proposed rules. Go for it.

  10. Sure it is, Yikes! The lies have turned into truths, very scary. Sounds like a psychological disease to me…

  11. Now that Fidelity spendt billions to buy back LPS DOCX, do they want it in their possession for genuine forgeries for the future foreclosures? Or is it a way to Loraine a bonus?

    Years back I wrote a simple letter to William P Foley “what went wrong that your NY attorney Thomas Malone finds himself fighting for a forged deed?’
    Fidelity’s answer to me for Foley was ‘it is proper…’

  12. A genuine print out, hmmm Stevie Wonder could figure that one out LOL!

    A copy is not a genuine anything, as we all know…these people are such a-holes and not risk takers, not smart, they just have a control over markets and bribe up DC “public servants” to push, immunity for felonies. Only felonies by them, by the way. We just try and correct our DOT and get arrested. Intimidation is what it is…

  13. poppy said -… how did they acquire it, the $64,000 question. It always comes back to the endorsement, assignment or consideration

  14. What a good idea Poppy. Search as much as one can about your opponents cases, backgrounds connections and even the judge if that is what is going to take to get due process.

  15. “I wonder how many mortgages they have given for other people with forged deeds or property stolen?”

    I call the paperwork, counterfeit…because that is exactly what it is. They produce a blue ink note, I don’t think so. I don’t know anyone who has requested the judge enter that into evidence to get a forensic expert analyze the darn thing. 100% not real and does it matter? IMHO NO, because how did they acquire it, the $64,000 question. It always comes back to the endorsement, assignment or consideration or all 3…they are full of shit!

  16. Stripes and Christine

    You are so right Stripes people have to talk up about the fraud perpetrated against them by the Courts, the Banksters the wall street greepers and even some attorneys. so that they don’t get away scot free with disrupting lives and the injury they cost so many.

    I am sure that a woman of judge Schlesingers character and ethics has intentionly ruled against the law for me and others for her own greedy benefit

    Far from being contempt of court which is obstructing justice Christine, I am fighting for justice for me and anyone that has to go in front of a judge like Alice Schlesinger
    I grew up in expecting a judge to give me justice . its up to all of us to to fight that every courtroom is filled with the mind and ethics of a judge Schack Anything less is not due process.

    Our Constitution is not just a piece of paper. It is what has made America great.
    Yes Christine American is the greatest Country

  17. They are also handed a file, hundreds of them. They do NOT know your case. You have all the information if you trace the lineage of your paperwork, IMHO…the research and killer instinct will get you far. They don’t know how to deal with you..hit them at every weak point, like the bullies they are!

  18. stripes
    I think it really doesn’t give a bank the willies to participate in a modification fraud but the only the fear it would become common knowledge.
    I went to Bank of American telling them that David Fiveson’s client Frances Turner has a mortgage with Bank of America for a forged deed and apparently forged deed or not, it’s the signature that Bank of America wants.
    With Bank of America in the spotlight I wonder how many mortgages they have given for other people with forged deeds or property stolen?

  19. But shhhhh…! They will never tell their dirty little secret about how the rob us…!

  20. Actually it is a Corporate pipeline from Treasury Direct to their Corporate bank accounts. Nothing ever goes back into the Treasury from them. It is a one way pipeline with no paper trail of their crime….!

  21. They knew just how to throw the paper trail on its’s called TREASURY DIRECT….AN ELECTRONIC PIPELINE RIGHT TO THE U.S. TAXPAYER’S MONEY….!

  22. @ Louise- re: “Only one guy in courtroom, and I guess he was FBI.”

    Next time you “visit” a courtroom and see the guy in the black powersuit walk up and introduce yourself and ask him what business he has here today and for his card…….

    I went to the FBI (Baltimore office) almost 4yrs ago seeking redress with a 3″ stack of evidence that could have made an easy case for DOJ and I was summarily dismissed.

    I remember the duty agent being a real prick, asking “where is your lawyer” and “what is the federal nexus?”

    After I told the prick “how about RESPA, TILA, FDCPA, RICO, Title 18 crimes, etc. he shut up and said “I work homicide, I don’t know much about financial crimes….”

    What a useless tool. I went from being intimidated to really pissed off in about 10 seconds.

    They are in bed with the banks as well (just dig into Patricia Cornwell crime novels) but they can be useful idiots if they are played the right way.

    Remember they are public SERVANTS that collect a public paycheck funded by the people (not to be confused with persons)

  23. All genuine readers/supporters of Neil Garfield and the incredible work he has done/ risks he has taken —when he could be playing golf right now and enjoying retirement– respect Neil (he who comes to equity must do equity) and analyze the attacks on Wikileaks as model for attacks on LivingLies. See the parallels. “Out” the trolls, fast hard, and aggressively. Here is their model for attack.

    Replace “Wikileaks” with “LivingLies” in excerpt below and it will give you perspective.

    Remember Neil’s family had a seat on a NY trading exchange. He was Wall Street insider and they don’t like their secrets being exposed.

    “One of the principle promoters of the financial blockade is the Bank of America, which originally owned VISA (‘Bank Americard’). The bank has a history of targeting WikiLeaks: Julian Assange had announced that WikiLeaks planned to release material incriminated the bank in “unethical practices”. Bank of America commissioned a data intelligence contractor, HBGary, via Washington law firm Hunton & Williams, to propose a systematic US $2 million/month multipronged attack to take out WikiLeaks. The report was leaked.

    Two other intelligence firms that worked on the report subsequently severed ties with HBGary and stated that the tactics HBGary proposed to employ against WikiLeaks were “offensive”.

    These included sabotage, disinformation, fueling feuds between individuals, creating concern over the security of WikiLeaks
    infrastructure, maintaining sustained pressure and a media campaign to “push the radical and reckless nature of wikileaks activities”, cyber attacks to obtain the identity of whistleblowers, and intimidating journalists by forcing them to choose between their career and supporting WikiLeaks. It specifically targeted activist, lawyer and journalist Glenn Greenwald of

    The report also listed WikiLeaks ‘weaknesses’, including “Financial: They are under increasing financial pressure because authorities are blocking their funding sources.”

    The blockade is directed at WikiLeaks donors. It erects a wall between
    WikiLeaks and its supporters.

  24. Your guess is probably wrong weezie. It was probably the S.S….THE SECRET SERVICE.


  26. Todd, I have been at this for five years and several lawsuits. Went to federal court with a friend I gave a ride to on FDCPA, and there was an ominous-looking guy sitting in the courtroom. Only one guy in courtroom, and I guess he was FBI.


  28. It is certainly not enough poppy to allow these imposters to keep dishonoring us. Then the terrorists have fraudulent control over us as individuals.

  29. We cannot allow these third party foreign imposters to keep on dishonoring us. That is why we have a Constitution/Bill of Rights so the protests that are happening in Egypt and elsewhere don’t happen here. These crooks are in dishonor to WE THE PEOPLE so says all of the laws of this land.

  30. We know all that stripes, but in this fight it is not enough to just say that…

  31. Those people in Egypt are waking up and realizing that they were robbed by these Khazar Nazi crooks and that is why the crooks put a dictator in place there and in every nation. They are blaming Obama however and that is a mistake. This scam is a Khazar communist scam and is much bigger than Obama. He is just a certified goldmember puppet.

  32. These crooks never lent us any money…they stole our wealth and racketeered with our autographs and used our unauthorized signatures as a weapon to defraud us and steal all of our equity out of everything we paid for. The mortgage was no more than a brass tax…a payment for nothing but to rob and weaken us into fraudulently induced poverty.

  33. I should say the imposters were “CASHING IN” by RACKETEERING with our autographs …our unauthorized signatures again & again every which way they could. Same racket by the racketeers….the same foreign third party imposters/fictitious payees in fraudclosure.

  34. The criminal negligence by these greedy bastards is on the face of those unendorsed and unindorsed notes. Those checks were paid in full by the U.S. TAXPAYERS VIA THE U.S. TREASURY DEPARTMENT the day they cashed them and THEY failed to endorse them was a criminal act of INTENT TO DECEIVE. … THAT IS THE BIG HOODWINK…BUT…That is also clear and undeniable proof & evidence of their bank fraud and intent to deceive us to defraud us & harm us and cash the checks again & again upon those unindorsed notes they were racketeering with our autographs to gain unjust enrichment with. Fraudclosure upon those unendorsed and unidorsed notes is proof of intent to deceive to permanently harm us.


  35. My point was: strategy…diminishing returns for them. Make yourself a real pain in the ass and keep filing shit. resjudicaca…(shit) and equitable tolling only matter if you continue complaints with the same subject matter. Change it up and go after the low-hanging fruit too. Again, IMO

  36. They are truly just a bunch of creepy spooks. Ghouls, goblins, witches, warlocks and demons from hell hold no power over the truth. All of us knowing the truth and letting them know it, is what they really fear.

  37. One other thing regarding these lawyers: if you check other cases, transcripts with some of the cats that are after you, the lies are in your face. The research is daunting, but they cannot even remember what they say and they hand a file off, with no research to people who say the same thing over and over. Their weakness is they use the same behavior, time and again. They are creatures of habit.

    Keep in mind, we all know our own cases better than anyone. Stay with what you know to be true and foremost, quick reacting, that’s how they pin you and you end up defending yourself, instead of playing by your rules, your game…not theirs. They are better at it.

    It’s like any game…if the player is better, you MUST find a way to beat him/her. What’s your strong suit and their weak suit? It ties up the game, quickly IMHO only!

  38. Time to get down to the brass tax America and when you get there you will find these foreign third party imposters AKA TBTF/MERS!/CORPORATE AMERICA owe WE THE PEOPLE a metric ton of money & clear titles. They are all just big fat lying criminal bastards.

  39. meant LCS Financial. Want to ensure record is correct

  40. @ Poppy. That’s exactly what I’m talking about. Nexus between attys and title cos (whitewashing title), banks, and “ownership” of property (real and personal) is leverage to expose in open court or by affidavit into a case, then to Atty Grievance Commission, AG, etc. My personal favorite is IRS via forms 3949a and 211. They can be your frienemy.

    That’s excellent research. We’ve dealt with Recon (Connie Medley) and they duck, duck duck when suing for an accounting. NW Trustee, LSC Financial (junk “debt” buyer” run by Leo Stawiarski- Codilis, Stawairski, et al) and all the “usual suspects” on West Coast

    This is all a mask for the big property grab.

    JPMorgan said it 100yrs ago. paraphrasing “… take away their property [with associated bundle of rights], put them back on the plantation and then see how much they squeal about government abuse….”

    Poppy’s research is model for those newer to the game that think basic discovery is enough. Remember you need overwhelming force at the weakest point to break their back (Sun Tzu- Art of War)

  41. Dirt on dirt bags…we did a background check on two of the lawyers. One is in bed with Recon Trust, owns multiple properties in San Francisco and 5 law suits against her for trying to withhold information in a bankruptcy hearing for “unjust enrichment” for her law firm at the peril of other creditors. Suzanne Uhland of O’ Melveny Meyers, CA.

    The other lawyer, substitute trustee, putting my loan is his own personal company, he claims my note as an asset, on his books and records. Then giving addresses with elove(dating service), as a place of legal business…which does not belong to him and he has no affiliation with. The list is long with this guy, Mathias Hunoval, NC, SC and Florida, I think.

    Another sending amended repurchase agreements for Credit Suisse, on a Sunday @ 6:00 p.m. from a DMD office in NJ…the number is current too…

    It is worth checking up on these folks. I think you will find they have dirty, dirty laundry, if this helps. Just my humble opinion here….

  42. re- “[c]ounsel lie on the record, but they messed with the court transcript and took whole sections out of it.”

    Anyone with some basic vanilla fraudclosure litigating under their belt has had this happen. In another case they “lost” 3 docs I filed. A month later I showed up with my clocked in copies and they blew it off like it happens all the time

    Attack the low hanging fruit that were necessary to “lose” parts of the transcript

    The weak link are front line worker bees who aid and abet “losing or deleting” transcript. Put their nuts on the line and see if you can get them to squeal like a pig

    Developing human assets is one of the most valuable intel.

    We’ve found (with experience in 17 states now) that playing nice with low level employees can yield a lot of intel and help.

    Converse is true. If you nail one of them screwing with you at behest of “boss” hang them out to dry.

    remember this is war. that is not a hysterical statement but a fact.

  43. They ignored and did not comply with the rule of law from the Origination. Therefore what is in the PSAs and the Prospectus is meaningless.

  44. Wikileaks will tell you a lot of truth to make you believe one big lie. They are hoodwinkers who work for putin as well. Assange is a fraud as well and we know that from his frequent appearances on RT NEWS. Know the truth so you can dispell their lies and beware the deceivers. They are wolves in sheep’s clothes.

  45. It’s all about leverage. Get more leverage over them than they have over you. Dirt on dirtbags is good place to start. Speaking from personal experience with over 8,000 hours in this game that I can attest to under penalty of perjury, reading one more 10k, PSA, doing one more discovery request, RFA, RFP, etc is really waste of my time personally.

    Those genuine readers know that if they followed the facts and law homeowners would win 100% of the time with basic discovery. The formula is Jurisdictionary easy.

    We know that’s not the case so, one must go beyond the facts and law. That’s why I sought out (not other way around) former 3 letter intel officer with many lifetimes of experience for his intel gathering expertise applied to fraudclosure problem. God must have been looking out for me since he agreed to help since he knows how bad things are and we entered into private agreement in Dec 2012 to provide intel gathering expertise and to consult on how to be force multiplier.

    Go after dirt on dirtbags, get the financial disclosure and background checks. Like Neil says “follow the money”

    In MD, M&t Bank owns the STATE of MD. M&T is custodian bank for judge’s pension fund, M&T administers the fund, running hundreds of millions through accounts, earning fees, M&T Bank name is on Ravens Stadium in downtown Baltimore (Superbowl winners) and Warren Buffer is major shareholder in M&T.

    Add to that fraudclosure mill attorney Thomas P. Dore’s partner F. Vernon Boozer (Covahey, Boozer, Devan, Dore) was longtime state Senator, and sits on Rules Committee of Court of Appeals.

    Even going after Dore, they have shielded him. I could go on and on and on.

    I think I’m the only guy I know in the entire country with a 1099a that I was able to get from IRS and actually move into evidence with NO objection. It was the classic pregnant pause from all 5 attorneys and hostile “judge” (who happens to be hockey coach at Dore’s alma mater, Calvert Hall) but it didn’t matter, at least on the surface

    I have larger agenda to let my example serve others that don’t know how to fight for themselves. I’ve taken a lot of arrows, put my family at risk and I believe for the right reasons.

    So, continue being pissed off, but be smart and treat this like the war that it is. Go beyond the facts and law and do whatever is necessary to win.

    We see the large REITS and institutional money scarfing up tens of thousands of fraudclosed homes and now pooling and securitizing the RENTS

    The NWO agenda of eliminating private property rights is playing out exactly as planned

    Only each one of you fighting back can collectively stop the untimate goal from being achieved. Our survival is at stake.

  46. Don’t believe them when they tell you everything will be just fine once they get you to sign another fake loan contract so they can steal and pocket more of your money in your own name. Or allow them to tell you if you let them steal your wealth and house that will clear your name they tarnished. THEY ARE LIARS & THIEVES….! Only you can clear your name they tarnished by putting them in their place. They are clever cons who robbed every one of us and they want to write the word deadbeat on our tombstones. Don’t allow them to do that to you.

    Tell the Nazis you demand they pay back what they stole and hijacked from you.

    They are criminals who are very deceptively extorting your money & property from you and they all need to be put in their place and told that.

    Remember, they like chicken.

  47. ML, not only did opp. counsel lie on the record, but they messed with the court transcript and took whole sections out of it. The new assignment puts my loan in a 2006 trust in year 2011–how is that?

  48. ToddW, Excellent article and how to silence Wikileaks or any other organization from telling the truth. We do have trolls here unfortunately, and they are muddying the water. However, just to throw another item into the mix, we also have people with assorted personality disorders that just like to post krap to feel important. Good fighting!!

  49. Those judges are criminals then marilyn. They are all liars and they are all full of shit.

  50. Louise.

    that is exactly it. Once a judge takes a bribe The judge has to count on someone not appealing the case or if one appeals the TRIAL JUDGE either has to know the Appellate Court will protect or she has to figure out how to get the Appellate Court to stand shoulder to shoulder against the appellant.
    That is what happened in my case. The Appellate court wrote five pages of lying scathing opinion and went as far to lie about the dates my petition was in Federal Court.

    David B Saxe is Appellate 1ST DEPT is a Bully and I can tell you all the judges are afraid of him including Chief JUDGE JPONATHAN LIPPMAN

  51. Lie is all they do Todd. The truth is a dangerous weapon to have in our arsenal to the great deceivers of mankind.

  52. What they really want is for all of us to feel the pain and misery they inflicted on us for the rest of our days.

    As my Grandpa would say ….Ah…do you expect me to believe that fairytale? Now, go bafangul…and pay me what you owe me….!

    The only muscle power they have is the lies they can make us believe.

  53. here’s that link to Wikileaks financial blockade attack via BOA et al.

    page 4 details what they are doing when targeting LivingLies. having been at tail end of trolls attacking myself and others and outing them it’s a model of what to watch out for. Be alert at all times for these tactics at play on any site/ information source you frequent. When you know the tactics they jump off the page at you

  54. When you know the truth you can see what they are doing is railroading us out of our Freedoms and Liberties in open court rooms.

    They do nothing by operation of law so neither should we. They want everything they do to appear legal but none of it is. The minute we realized they are operating outside of the rule of law is when when we needed to stop conforming, complying and cooperating as well and send them our notice and demand letter for payment and clear title.

    They are playing us for fools so why do we continue to be played for their fools? They are lying and deceiving to steal everything from us and nothing they are doing is legal inside those courtrooms and we need to tell them that openly and honestly. We are not stupid chumps so why are they lying right to our faces?

    Why are they kicking the can down the road instead of ruling these fc cases being brought are illegal and instead they are playing a fake intermediary role up on those benches? It is obvious they are prejudice towards us or these cases would have never been entered and all of these suits would have and should have been settled quietly out of court and out of the public eye.

    They want feudalism. They want to incite hatred and disdain and they want us to lose it.

    They are testing us to see what we know and stealing whatever they can.

    I for one am not going for it. Send me my checks & my satisfactions and pick on someone your own size to pick on you bunch of mental midgets…!

  55. ML, I do not doubt many of the judges and attorneys are in it for the money, and it does not matter who is injured or even dies just for the money. The human race is very diverse, and it cannot all be about just the money. Once you take the money illegally, you are now on the hook. Once on the hook, you can’t quit the job.

  56. I see it more as the politicians have the banks in their back pocket. Obama appoints all Federal Judges and the local politicians appoint the civil judges. We don’t elect any of these people. Democracy is communism in disguise. These liars who tell lies as fact turned everything on its head with their play on words and their big act they put on. However, they never thought they would get caught ignoring the rule of law, our legal rights and therefore, they are ignoring us.

    Exposure is their biggest fear. They don’t want the sheeple to know they are criminalizing us for their crimes and they are a bunch of crooks. They are a bunch of Hitler Nazis who are working for Stalin on U.S. soil.

  57. christine is the former Enraged, check posts going back. Neil threw her off here. She is from Ohio and I have a close friend who knows her deal. She does lie and leads people wrongly, down a error filled path. Much of her information is not hers, copied from other’s. I can document what I say. The party that knows her can attest and will if this gets too out of control and people get hurt by mis-information.

    Everyone here is entitled to their opinions and case management right or wrong.

  58. Again I have to ask why is Christine here? She is from Ohio she said? God help Ohio. Who in the hell are these people and where in the hell do they come from? Answer….Demons from hell. These things are living among us and the politicians want our ammo….? That can only mean one thing, they are demons from hell too.

    I flipped on RT news this morning to spy on them and all I can say is these foreigner’s will never be able to conform, comply or cooperate with us. Let’s just say that is because they are a different breed than us. They definitely should never be given any legal rights under our Constitution because they absolutely hate us.

    Let’s just say this, now I know why they hid their identity and what they were planning. If we would have known what these demons were up to, we would never have wrote them a check, let alone sent them any payments or loaned them our signatures to gamble with.

    This is also why they lie and deceive and will never reveal who they are is demons from hell, or what they want is hell on earth.

    Do not trust, verify. If you cannot verify, do not trust.

    They use very deceptive sales tactics to sell their lies, they tell lies as fact. Christine is definitely one they should have never hired.

  59. I need to get back to work but if fed “judge” is sticking to you, get their financial disclosure (unredacted) and FOIA results of FBI background check before their appointment to bench.

    Former FBI whistleblower Sibel Edmonds (check credibility yourself) at around 40 min. lays it out as told to her by FBI colleague who did those background checks “.. the squeaky clean judges are eliminated from candidate pool, the ones with the most dirt on them are top picks for federal bench..”

    We all know they are in back pocket of banks (Shack, and few others exceptions) but here is corroboration from credible source. Same on state level with governor appointments

    having personal firsthand experience with fed “judge” (in NY no less) stick it to me after pre-suit discovery erroneously moved from state to fed court I know of which Sibel Edmonds speaks and probably most of the genuine readers of this blog concur

  60. Louise

    there is a 2% chance that could be connected to Judge Schlesinger’s wacko ruling but I tend to think she wanted the equity offered by Malone of Fidelity Title and Fiveson of a non existent TITLE COMPANY . It is a lot cheaper to give a judge some
    Money than Fidelity to indemnify the forged title they insured and Fiveson and his client to be out the money they knowingly paid for a forged deed since Fiveson and his client Turner were not able to obtain title insurance when they took the risk.

    and now thar the tide is turning with the start of Fidelity’s lps docx fraud and Sen John Sampson we have to see if the Feds pick up on this.

  61. Having been at this for over 4 yrs as an accidental litigator after hurricane Katrina wiped out our $3M RE business, and litigating all our own cases, we always attack with discovery first. NY, TX, PA and few others have liberal pre-suit discovery. We work in a lot of states and they ALWAYS try to remove homeowner complaint to fed court (even when there is no nexus) to get dismissal per Iqbal/Twombly standard and duck discovery.

    That Declaration of Neil Garfield in the Tarantola BK case in AZ was bone crushing, but discovery is always tooth and nail fight.

    That said, after repeatedly stating in hearings with hostile “judges” that “I don’t understand” and “That’s not my signature” and “I demand original genuine authenticated docs per evidence rules”, and having a 1099a I got from the IRS stating in Box5 “was borrower personally liable for repayment of the debt?” checked NO, it hit me like a ton of bricks the lien instrument (mortgage and deed of trust) are an area of attack.

    Here is that 1099a filed into evidence in one of those hearings (5 attys against me with hostile “judge” helping them out).

    Have been pursuing the fact that no party to a trust needs to know or understand a trust is being formed. The manifestation of intent (signature and admission to understanding) is what controls.

    Everyone that benefits from Neils work keep “outing” trolls. Having been personally attacked many times for outing the crooks I can personally empathize with Neil seeing the attacks on him. We are fighting a very sophisticated enemy and if you look at the Wikileaks leak on the cyber attack on their site the “strategy” that was leaked from the attackers once it was acquired is exactly same as attack on LivingLies.

    Sow dissension, pit groups against one another, leak bogus information. Same ole. Recognize the attacks, out the trolls as fast and as hard as possible and circle wagons around LivingLies.

    We are all in this together and the enemy is lurking all around. I hope NSA picks up this post and stores it for later. Remember you are ALWAYS making your record.

    I hope some troll is stupid enough to try to explain away that 1099a. I know what they don’t know. It’s all about property (real, personal, tangible, intangible) and the rights that come with titles to that property.

    Hang tough

  62. ML, Notwithstanding the judge’s ruling, they are all compromised through threats just like the Mafia is run. They rule against you and the rule of law, because they cannot rule on the side of justice. Do not give up and keep on going. Sue them again. It makes no difference whether are left, right or in the middle politically. Think of it this way: suppose you were a Judge and you get the call that if you don’t rule the way the corporate interests want, they will kill your daughter or they will kill you or ruin your chances to be re-elected because of a sex-based scandal. I am sure there is great fear out there.

  63. You know, ML we have enough to deal with. IMO this should be about support, transparency and altruistic players. That’s not what is going on, particularly with her. She belittles people, tries to censor things, insults those who have opinions that differ, not kind in any way! She has major personality issues and does get a thrill out of hurting people…the big picture, she doesn’t get it, never has. This is her place to feel empowered…the Internet is ripe with tough guys…in your face, not so much!

  64. Poppy
    you are absolutely right about Christine. Some people with frail
    personalities after going thru banks attacking us, could well be swayed by her advice that she pretends to give with great authority

  65. IMHO ML, she’s not worth it and she loves the attention…that’s her mo-jo…don’t feed the disease!

  66. Christine
    I know the law of my case very well You age putting out misinformation

    The two condo titles have never left me.

    Pursuant to Elliot v Piersol …if a Court is without Authority, its judgments and orders are regarded as nullities. They are not voidable but simply Void and form no bar to recovery sought, even prior to reversal in opposition to them. They constitute no justification and all persons concerned in executing such judgments or sentence are considered in law as trespassers.

    Judge Schlesinger knows this law that is why she wrote such a cockamamie opinion trying to hide the facts.

  67. ML

    Why anyone would listen to her I’ll never know. There are some here who kneel when she speaks, she loves it. In the time I have been on this blog, she has not given one piece of solid advice that has helped anyone. And she eludes to the fact she knows, personally, the strong players, oh no, not true! If you take careful note, she plays her conversation and alliances to the stronger fighters…nothing more. She has no skin in this game, she lost all a long time ago! I have that on good authority. Of course, losing does have its “merits” if you are paying attention…

  68. Hey Enraged/christine…you really need to get a life and get laid, if you can!

    And quit addressing me, as you say to other’s. You are not smart enough or sophisticated enough to engage in “quality” communication with other’s.

    It is not your place, nor is this YOUR blog to tell anyone what they can and cannot post or say.

    You have zero credibility with me, you earn that. And from what I can tell, you are neither educated enough, smart enough or classy enough to respect anyone else, so you are void!

  69. @Christine

    if you can’t give legal advice your better off sticking with your

    Propaganda and studies from Henny Penny -The Sky is Falling.

  70. Imbeciles. ML, you lost. Keep being stupid: you will never, ever get anything back. Nor do you deserve it. Too stupid for it. And not everyone studied law is an attorney. What a frickin’ load, those two!!!

  71. Stripes

    I think Christine ‘s purpose on this site is to try to stop all of us from continuing to fight for what was stolen from us by third party foreign crooks

    She wants you to stop Stripes because you had better pay attention to the comet.

    She wants me to stop fighting a left wing judge whose wacko decision gives possession to my condos to third parties who were flipped ’ their forged titles from two foreigners a Chinese and a greek who never owned them

    She misses tnharry BobG etc They have dropped out and they drop out when their disguise is uncovered by any or all of us on this site.

    How many other might be misguided or discouraged by this fine attorney Christine/?
    John Gault, I sent the papers but again as this fine attorney Christine posts mers is going to be around for awhile.

  72. Every country in the world that despises our freedom knows we are being played for fools except most of us. They act like obama is some hero in every country but our own. The president of the khazars is everybodies favorite comrade. These people are not our friends because friends don’t lie to friends. The ongoing Obama globetrotting initiative should be a wake up call to the American people he is the greatest hoodwink in our history. The dancing Israel’s are pissing in their pants with delight at how they are massacring millions of Americans without ever firing a shot. To hell with Denmark..the rotting stench is right here at home. HELL…they don’t need no FEMA CAMPS these politicians are simply burning the American people alive right inside of their their homes…..!

  73. Take Senator Dick Durbin’s statement that frankly the banks own the place referring to Congress. What an honest person would have said would have been the Khazar communists hijacked the place to steal the country. But of course they rule by deception. Like the Khazar communist flag that flies all over Chicago, the people don’t even know the Nazis are flying their swastika all over the City. The policemen & firemen wear it on their uniforms. They are quite frankly, playing us for fools and most don’t have a clue it is even going on or who these people are. Like the Picasso demon that sits in front of the daley center as a landmark and a tourist attraction. Most people don’t even know what they are witnessing is coming right from the depths of hell. Their symbols and landmarks mean something completely different than what most people perceive them to be. They are conquering by deception. I actually saw kids playing on that demon in the daley center. WTF? Wake up people..! Snap the hell out of it for goodness sake. It is no police state it is a Nazi black op going on right in front of your stupid faces…!

    Christine says the FEMA CAMPS are for victims of these crimes against us. What more do we need to know?

  74. Good God will they ever stop lying? Some just don’t get it and probably never will until they are buried alive in their lies and filth. When they finally get buried alive in their lies and filth then it will be too late for them. I for one won’t be having a pity party for any of them.

  75. The threat from above Reagan was talking about is the truth and that certainly is not what Christine is talking about. What Christine is talking about is the hope of the wicked…. that we would keep believing their lies.

  76. The only pole that is going to be shifting is the one the truth is going to ram up christines big fat lying butt…..

    The truth is these crooks can manufacture just about anything but they can never tell the truth about anything.

    When the truth is revealed about all of their manufactured crap then the pole is going to shift from the stampede of pissed off people that are going to be coming there way. Then they will head for their underground bunkers that certainly aren’t earthquake proof. There God will bury them and their lies for at least 1000 years.

    Then Calvary will be accomplished.

  77. Poppy,


    There is a big, fat planet with a weird oval orbit, not part of our solar system. It has different names I won’t bog you down with but it has a tendency to come by every 3,600 years right between the sun and earth. US knows, Russia knows, China knows, the entire world knows about it. Actually, NASA put thousands of videos of it on internet. It is a known fact. You can check it at your leisure.

    When it comes by, that planet has a very long tail that drags many, many comets along. It’s called “gravity”. That big, fat planet has either already come by (according to some scientists) or is about to come by, according to other scientists. It takes about 20 years for it to go around the sun and move out. In order to get past us, it has to increase its velocity. Drastically. One of the results of its passing has, historically, been a shift of the poles, already felt since many airports have been renumbering their runways to reflect a 10 to 20 degree magnetic north change. You can verify that on internet. Ask me if you can’t find that info. It is mainstream news.

    With pole shifting come major catastrophes. Verified historically. Our strange weather is only partially our doing. it is mostly that planet orbiting around and pulling away from the sun. It needs to accelerate its rate of speed to move away from the sun, lest it would be sucked in. By doing so, it creates a pull on earth, causing tsunamis, volcanic eruptions and earthquakes. It also screws the weather patterns.

    We’re in the midst of it. As I said, US, Russia, China and every country in the world knows and has been preparing for it. Hence FEMA camps and all the underground facilities to accommodate government. There will be many human casualties. Countries are cooperating right now in preparation for the aftermath. Hence heavy military artillery from every country moving into every other country.

    Funny… Didn’t Reagan say that countries would start cooperating when faced with a threat from above?

    Don’t read more into what you see than what is currently happening. Banks did screw many people out of homeownership. And money. That’s the least of any problem humanity has ever had.

    Do you know that you can go into NASA site anytime you want? Maybe you need to.


  78. Neil, you get it because you worked on the Street. Master Servicer worked on the street, and also gets it. You guys keep attacking the PSA. The MLPA’s are the point of attack –

    I have decided to run for Governor of NY – can i count on you guys for support?

  79. Some of you may find this quite interesting:

    Paul Joseph Watson
    July 1, 2013

    As part of a deal signed last week in Washington DC between the Russian Emergency Situations Ministry and FEMA, Russian officials will provide security at mass events in the United States, a scenario that won’t sit well with Americans wary of foreign assets operating on US soil.

    Russian troops. Image: Wikimedia Commons

    According to a press release by the Ministry of the Russian Federation for Civil Defense and Emergencies, US and Russian officials met on June 25 at the 17th Joint U.S.-Russia Cooperation Committee on Emergency Situations.

    In addition to agreeing with FEMA to exchange experts during joint rescue operations in major disasters, the Russian Emergency Situations Ministry will also be providing security at mass events in the United States.

    This suggests that events designated as National Special Security Events by the Department of Homeland Security, which include the Super Bowl, international summits such as the G8 and presidential inaugurations, will now rely partly on Russian authorities to provide security.

    The meeting last week also agreed on the conclusion that US and Russian emergency authorities will increase their co-operation, in order to respond efficiently to all kinds of disasters.

    The use of foreign troops or other officials in a law enforcement capacity providing security inside the United States is illegal under Posse Comitatus. Capt. William Geddes of the U.S. Army Reserve acknowledged last year that it is against federal law to use US troops to conduct police patrols, despite the fact that such occurrences are becoming increasingly common. The use of foreign troops is an even more clear cut violation of Posse Comitatus.

    Last year we reported on how Russian troops were invited to the US as part of a Fort Carson, Colorado drill focused around anti-terror training. Aside from learning how to target terrorists in America, the Russian soldiers were also out in the local community attending a baseball game in Colorado Springs.

    As Mac Slavo writes, Rumors have circulated for years about the possibility of foreign troops being deployed on U.S. soil in the event of a widespread declaration of a national emergency. For quite some time there have been anecdotal reports to support the claim that the U.N., Russia and other nations would be used in a policing capacity should some critical event befall our nation.

    The fear should such a scenario take place has been that these soldiers would act under the banner of their own flags, ignoring the fundamental protections afforded to our citizens, leaving Americans under the jurisdiction of people who don”t speak our language or respect our fundamental rights to self defense, to be secure in our homes, and to be presumed innocent in the eyes of the law.

  80. This Corp of crooks want us to believe they own us & they own everything. That is A BIG FAT LIE AMERICA….!

  81. All liars are getting put on the back of the bus.

  82. Who is blaming Obama for putting the Muslim brotherhood in power? Answer …. The crooks who actually put them there Vladimir Putin and his comrades.

    They always blame their victims.

  83. The problem with too many of us is we are so accustomed to being robbed and extorted by these crooks that we will settle for anything. I think it’s called classic conditioning.

  84. Why not tell them what you want Neidermeyer? They are in dishonor and default and they know it. They aren’t going to prison for their crime spree anytime soon…at least not the prison they belong in.

  85. FOX BIZ reporting Putin offers snowden a safe haven in Russia if he “stops the leaks”…..& Yo ho ho & a bottle of rum….!

  86. Wall Street derivatives sales reminds of cheap chicken Monday’s at the Jewel. The line is way to long to buy their dinky worthless pieces of chicken.

  87. Yes…Wall Street is a whore house who have high priced Hooker’s and street Hooker’s and their pimps travel around the globe selling investments in their whores.

  88. MERS SHMERS …. MERS is the whore of Babylon. Securitisation is a sham and a fraud as well. What is Securitisation? Answer ….. Securitisation is a politically correct term for 3 card monte.

    They up the ante with their derivatives fraud and have all the suckers pony up to sweeten the pot for themselves and their criminal friends.

    For example, we will use the Brooklyn Bridge as the investment tool.

    They would overissue investments in the Brooklyn Bridge that has no revenue flow they have any legal right to collect on because they don’t own it and then insure themselves on their fake risk. Then before the ponzi scheme blew up, they would hand some of the worst aspects of their fraud to one of their hedge fund managers or a Bernie Madoff character and there they would pump & dump some junk they want to get rid of such as the subprime loans they made with the Brooklyn Bridge as collateral and bundled with some other fake loans they made to convert, sell and gamble on.

  89. @ JG ,

    You know it ,, we have depositions scheduled and they can’t settle fast enough .. too bad we’re not in a settling mood.

  90. Actually, that Deadly Clear article brings up many good points. Worth reading from beginning to end. Here is another excerpt:

    “Or maybe another Supreme Court determination like the recent DNA case is necessary. Because land recordation is the very essence, in other words, the DNA of our country.

    In a recent Supreme Court DNA patent case Justice Thomas wrote, “We have ‘long held that this provision contains an important implicit exception’” that is, “Laws of nature, natural phenomena and abstract ideas are not patentable.’” [emphasis added]

    At the very least, securitization documents should not be allowed to be called “mortgage loans.”

    A special thank you to Alina, Jack, Deb, Steve and Deontos for their in-depth discussions. Please take the time to read through this important post and pass along to your friends and family.”

  91. Why MERS won’t go anywhere anytime soon…

    “There are numerous patents on securitization, REMICs, Mortgage Electronic Registration Systems, Inc., etc. For example, Paperless process for mortgage closings and other applications [Click Here for MERS Patent PDF] “relates to paperless transactions and the mortgage industry in particular, and more specifically to the closing, registration and custody of electronic mortgages.” The patent even used new terminology – these are “electronic mortgages” – not traditional mortgages. It’s debatable whether the documents could even be called “mortgage” – it is more like a chit in comparison to all the shadow banking and backdoor antics that occurred.

    This MERS patent was filed on January 18, 2005 with its Priority Date of February 10, 2004 and published October 26, 2010. This is considered a “new” invention. The patent acknowledges:

    “[T]he mortgage closing process is traditionally very paper intensive and tedious. Borrowers must affix wet signatures to many, many documents and lenders subsequently must physically copy, distribute, register and store the signed documents.”

    It might as well have read,

    “Hey man, not us – no paper documents needed. We’ll give anybody one of these new electronic mortgages – as long as they can breathe. We’ll flood the market with these defective loan products and force it down their throats.”

  92. It is the face of evil when felons and imposters can steal the sovereignty of the people by making them believe you own everyone & everything with no proof of purchase…no legally enforceable contracts!

  93. Too many Americans are too willing to comply, conform and cooperate with anything they are told by these foreign third party imposters. Since when do the American people believe everything they are told from strangers? Aren’t we taught never to talk to strangers when we were children? “The just believe us” theme is a dangerous enigma that the founders always feared. These clever crooks have used the just “trust us” meme masterfully and are now using it to re-invent our great nation into a tyranny. They are using lies people believe to stigmatize the American people and using lies and deception to label us as a stupid people. This took decades of brainwashing for these communist satanists to accomplish.

  94. JG, you are not the only one who gets it. MERS is total and complete BS. It was created to steal the property and to allow land fraud and mortgage fraud. Check out Catherine Austin Fitts on Youtube. She knows her stuff.

  95. I agree poppy…these crooks are getting away with paying people spit with no paper trail of their crime scene. They are all felons.

  96. Java,

    “People have finally woke up. I hear it. From people who thought you were crazy 2 years ago. Things are going to change QUICKLY.” It is already changing. I see it every day.

  97. Hey stripes, this is the shit I am talking about, no greenbacks, complete control…no money exchanged for wages.

    A growing number of American workers are confronting a frustrating predicament on payday: to get their wages, they must first pay a fee.
    For these largely hourly workers, paper paychecks and even direct deposit have been replaced by prepaid cards issued by their employers. Employees can use these cards, which work like debit cards, at an A.T.M. to withdraw their pay.
    But in the overwhelming majority of cases, using the card involves a fee. And those fees can quickly add up: one provider, for example, charges $1.75 to make a withdrawal from most A.T.M.’s, $2.95 for a paper statement and $6 to replace a card. Some users even have to pay $7 inactivity fees for not using their cards.

    Anyone here surprised?

  98. Time to take back our hijacked sovereignty from these third party crooks…!

  99. Thanks javagold!

  100. One thing which stands in favor of NG’s arguments or at least some arguments about third party payments is the fact that on the rare occasion when a homeowner has gotten a court to order the discovery which should occur in all cases as rote, the banksters ‘settle’. Apparently, they will do anything before disclosing the f a c t s.

    Did we know that MERS says it takes title to real property after an alleged credit bid in Louisianna because credit bid assignments aren’t
    allowed in that state? Does that tell anyone anything? What it tells me is I’ve got it right that the trusts may not own real property, even if they do own the loans. It also tells me that MERS and its buds meant to
    bifurcate the note and dot by the choice of the word “nominee” over agent, because as an agent, if MERS owns the property, then its principal (allegedly the trust) does, just in MERS’ name. So much double-speak. MERS chose the word nominee because they decided this would allow MERS to foreclose and hold title to the real property and or use MERS to make the bogus credit bid and then assign it to whomever to avoid the trust taking title to real property. But then, when it became convenient and or necessary, they said a nominee is a limited form of agency. Bah humbug. Bottom line: MERS is a nominee to take title and not do so as agent of a principal who can’t own real property. When we didn’t figure that one out, they alleged they were an agent in order to accomplish any number of things. If I’ve got this right and I’m the only one who gets it, we’re in trouble.

  101. People have finally woke up. I hear it. From people who thought you were crazy 2 years ago. Things are going to change QUICKLY.

  102. Unfortunately, as long as people are none the wiser to the fact third party investors with no receipts are being allowed to file lawsuits and use the deception that a Legal Contract exists, the ongoing theft of the wealth of the American people will continue unabated.

  103. What is the best way to rob an unknowing victim of Securities Fraud?

    Pretend a Legal Contract exists….! MWAHAHA..

    The victim is none the wiser because blind trust is the name of the third party imposters game.

    Give em hell Neil!

  104. Unfortunately, as long as judges are willing to allow opposing counsel to perjure themselves, commit fraud on the court, refuse discovery and present fraudulent, forget documents, we are still behind the eight ball. However, the big picture is starting to really change. I see light at the end of the tunnel.

  105. Boy are they desperate. Follow up to Barbara Bratton case


  106. Still scrambling to save… what? The furniture or something?

    Government in the Sunshine Meeting Notice
    Advanced Notice of a Meeting under Expedited Procedures

    It is anticipated that the closed meeting of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System at 11:30 AM on Monday, July 1, 2013, will be held under expedited procedures, as set forth in section 26lb.7 of the Board’s Rules Regarding Public Observation of Meetings, at the Board’s offices at 20th Street and C Streets, N.W., Washington, D.C. The following items of official Board business are tentatively scheduled to be considered at that meeting.

    Meeting Date: Monday, July 1, 2013

    Matter(s) Considered
    1. Review and determination by the Board of Governors of the advance and discount rates to be charged by the Federal Reserve Banks.

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