Eminent Domain is Still on the Table: Banks Outraged!

Editor’s Comment: The more people look at it, eminent domain looks like a good option that is fair and reasonable and smokes out the REAL creditor. Thus the Banks are up in arms about it and using every bit of lobbying and political muscle to stop it. But the practicalities of eminent domain might trump even the weight of the Banks. Curing the mortgage crisis will result in lifting the weight off of the budget of local government, limiting the burden on homeowners, and starting a robust, honest, transparent market in the secondary market where loans are traded and sold.

The way it works is simple. The local government seizes the mortgage, and pays the “owner” the fair  market value of the value of the mortgage. The amount is much higher than the amount they would receive in foreclosure so the banks would be stuck arguing for less money than they would ordinarily get. AND the actual party with a loan receivable would need to prove up the receivable, with all proper credits and debits — meaning that a final determination on the allocation of insurance, credit default swaps and Federal bailouts would need to be made.

This would expose the players in the securitization chain to civil and tax liability that they have not reported to the investors nor to the borrower. The actual amount left on the debt might lower than the fair market value of the property — but creditors are only allowed to get paid once for each debt, not multiple times the way they did in the securitization scam.

Each local economy would get a shot in the arm that would end or limit the fiscal and budgetary crisis, with homeowners given breathing room to develop equity and not feeling crushed under the weight of debt that can never be repaid anyway. This will increase spending, having an enormous effect on the local economy and a fairly substantial effect on GDP as the benefits trickle up to the top, where taxation of the players is already under scrutiny.

The problems for the banks is that they have two basic choices — give the money to the investors, making them whole or give back the money to the insurers, CDS counterparties and Federal agencies. They would have no claim on the seizure because by definition they are claiming that the REMIC pools own the debts.

This in turn will reveal the fact that the assets on the books of the balance sheets of the mega banks are largely fictitious and that huge liabilities have been left “off-balance sheet”. The insolvency of the megabanks would come front and center to the attention of everyone and then the Dodd-Frank bill and FDIC rules would work to “resolve” the insolvent banks by selling off pieces to those banks (out of more than 7,000 possibilities in this country alone) who are healthy and can absorb the pieces.

Whether it is eminent domain or anything else, this is the final result as I see it. We can only pretend so long before the sham economy becomes recognized and a real economy replaces the sham economy.

It simply is not possible for financial services to grow from 16% of GDP to 48% of GDP when the economy and every household was going further and further into debt. They were counting paper that was worthless in GDP when they should have been building things providing real services etc. The object became the illusion of making money rather than the reality of actually doing anything to earn it.

When financial services falls below 20% of GDP it will be at least one signal that our economy is back to basics. Eminent domain is one good way of forcing the issue. Everyone will be better for it and frankly the bankers who committed all these acts will be millionaires and billionaires regardless of what happens to their banks.

The Fight Over the Use of Eminent Domain to Seize Underwater Mortgages: Recent Updates

by Dechert LLP on 10/3/2012

The latest developments in the fight over the use of eminent domain to seize underwater mortgages in California and elsewhere have important implications for lenders nationwide.

The debate over the use of eminent domain for this purpose stems from plans raised by some municipalities to take title to underwater mortgages secured by real property within their jurisdictions and to pay the mortgage holders “fair market value” as the just compensation required by the Fifth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. Municipalities and private investors would then issue new mortgages to the homeowners and write down the principal balance of their loan. This would serve the dual goals of allowing the homeowners to build equity and reduce their monthly payments, and hopefully restoring some vitality to the local housing market. The restructured mortgages would then be sold to third-party investors.

Unsurprisingly, the mortgage lender community has been outraged by these proposals, and numerous market participants and observers have called for restraint and thorough consideration of the likely consequences before any program is put in place. Recently, some new voices have joined the chorus on both sides of the proposals.

Please see full alert below for more information.


96 Responses

  1. It’s great that you are getting thoughts from this paragraph as well as from our discussion made at this place.

  2. Show me the papers I have everyone of mine from oct 2009 my 4 tries to save home of 22 years up to and after until lockout march 29 2011
    Contact names dates what was even Wittnesses plus your docs that you sent
    My world destroyed I’m lost displaced put out to pasture alone at 53 today soon 55
    Show my papers against mine

  3. Sure seems to me that once this began eminent domain would come to a halt, due to once the bankster began the process of proveing hey own the loans it would become apparent they dont and eminent domain would stop. However it would also stop the fraudclosures. So perhaps an evil would stop an evil. i dont believe the government should own our property. It is our government that is stealing through the banks now. Main stream government v the White house.

  4. Funny story…when we were leaving court a couple of weeks ago we were going to our car through the building across from the Daley Center and who did we run into…..? Bill Kurtis ….the legendary Chicago journalist…. What a coincidence that we had quite the story to tell him..!

  5. Smells like Romney…? Well, if he came this far in the political arena we all know he is no saint. Like someone said….he was born on third base and thinks he hit a homerun. We all see the millions he is getting from these crooks however, Obama is far worse because he is an actual commie member & that is why he needs to go….We didn’t go out to play with these crooks. We were deceived by these crooks and that is criminal in the U.S.A….!

  6. Whatever.

  7. Sorry Enraged … Mr Bankster already played on that Theme. Its didnt work with Him and its not going to work for You ? Funny… The Greedy calling the Victim Heartless.

  8. If it smells Like Romeny .. it must be Romeny. What other conclusion can one draw on such facts. Any hows … You should all be Warned… The Stockholder, The Invester, The Saver, The Taxpayer and the Teacher all went out to Play ….. And they forgot their “Halos”! Their Horns are Sharp …. Are your Biskets covered in Runny Gravy?

  9. Shadowcat…WHAAAAAAT? That is the most lying bunch of outrageous crap I have ever heard…..You have the nerve to say I am not a true blood American….? My Grandfather fought in WWII and gave people like you your freedom. If he were alive today he would call you a TRAITOR…..We did not do anything to make these mortgages insolvent. WE THE PEOPLE DID NOT COMMIT A QUADRILLION DOLLARS IN CREDIT FRAUD.

  10. SC,

    What is wrong with you? With that kind of hatred, no wonder you had a heart attack (or a stroke) and a cancer! Hating people and resenting them is like drinking poison and hoping they’ll die from it.

    So far, you’re killing yourself. You’re not doing anything to me.

  11. Childish Game and a Defensive one to … you know,… if you dont want it seen and read … push it down the stream with….. Distraction! hahahaha … I was not born yesterday … I’m an ol Pro! Reality Check #2 complete.

  12. You’ve paraded around this site for years, … you create what you want all right … you created aLot of debt (debt that someone must now absorb). Some claim their debt is due to a job loss, I disagree,!! Their income was lost do to a job loss. Right? The debt was created Before the Job Loss. Right? There is a Differance .. Wouldnt you Agree? I think that …( just as the banksters did) the person making such claims did not make future plans as how they would handle such a castastric loss in income. They lived in their big houses and went with the flow .. Give Me More…Give Me More…Give Me More.. Credit …. “”The How To Manual on How To Beat the System”… (LOOPHOLES). Get Rich Quick… all you have to do is close your eyes and say … I dont care who pays or whos money it is…I WANT IT! Then those FREELOADERS make their plans to stash their loot abroad. While Bashing this Country to distract people of what is really going on. .. you know, you smug lil non true blooded american … you! Did you Hear … the Crack I mean?

  13. @Ivent,

    Everybody goes through tests in life. Comes with the territory. Whether you pass or flank, either way, you have a testimony to share. Most people who go through tests don’t share their
    “test-imony”. All they share is the moanies…

    Posted on July 25, 2008 by Neil Garfield |


    “I knew then my quest for an attorney was over.” Everybody on this site has some horror story to tell. I wasn’t immune: I got screwed over by attorneys to the tune of $6,500 before I found the right one. Inconvenient lessons I learned and which was necessary to focus my aim.

    It got me increasingly angry until I decided “No more!” Anger is good. Anger is necessary. What makes the difference in people’s results is what they do with it: come here or to other such sites and rant over and over or take action. I came here, I learned a lot, I did my homework and I went on the attack. And i know exactly what I want to accomplish. Either it works and I’ll know it was meant to be or it doesn’t and I’ll know it’s time to move on to bigger and better things. Either way, I have nothing to lose and a lot to gain.

  15. Well enraged, I suppose if they sold me a bum house I would have attacked first. However, when they sell you a bum mortgage, you don’t usually know that for quite a while. That is how the theives get a headstart. It is a case of…. if I knew then what I know now…I happen to live in the most corrupt county in the country so that is a clue about why I am here along with thousands of others who shouldn’t even be here….at all. Thanks Obama….!

  16. Oops..I meant to say a while back …Enraged….believe me, I have complained to all of those sham entities and then some….Every politician and law enforcement agency imaginable. The Rep from Senator Durbins office told me to do my homework. The Rep from Gov. Quinn’s office told me complain the the Illinois General Assembly….the Gov. Cant pass legislation without them…Oh yeah right…..mWAHAHA..I took the advice of the nice man from Gov Durbins office and got advice from all. That investigative work gave me a real feel for the situation…there is a lot of corruption here and I am on my own. Unfortunately for them, I don’t give up. I think it’s the Italian in me or maybe the German…or the Irish. Whatever it is, no one is going to steal from my family and get way with it.

  17. SC,

    Check Justia and see how many people who don’t post here decided to go on the attack in federal court 2, 3, 4 years ago. Foreclosure defense and BK are reactive actions. I don’t live life by default. i create the life i want.

  18. Here’s a story from the trenches….a while backing met with an investigator from the State AGs office and the Chief of police from town. I brought with me my box of evidence. I told both of them about all of the fraud in my mortgages and how strangely, I can’t find an attorney to fight this fraud. I told them I have gone to meet with quite a few of those attorneys. The…. what do you call those attorneys? They both looked at each and said yeah, what do you call those? and literally cracked up laughing. I knew then my quest for an attorney was over.

  19. SC,

    I’m not in BK.

  20. “EULE, on October 7, 2012 at 5:40 am said:

    Ivent , here is a commercial tip .I filed a complain with the new CFPB , the OCC forwarded it . I still wait for the result , but it looks like it will work .You may also file a refinancing with your Bank online for hardship ,the lower my Interest from 9 % to 5 % that tells you already
    what kind of paperwork I have.”

    People who appear to get the best results are the proactive ones. Decide what you want to accomplish. Decide what it will take. Decide that it cannot and will not fail. Take action. And then, leave it to Gawd, Law of Attraction, the little green guys, your guardian angel or whatever you believe in handle it while you live life and enjoy yourself.

  21. And the Taxpayer Money and the Retirement Money people saved! PFFFT! Crack….

  22. @Enraged… you mean you found out it was an unsecured debt along with all your other unsecured debts and went running to BK court with your tail between your legs? Right? You couldnt meet your obligations otherwise your wouldnt be in BK Right? You have to qualify for BK to file it ..Right? Your just another Marshmellow! If you werent you’d still be helping put out the flames and not fan them. You act like your so Smug .. beating the system! I said who I wanted to smack … but did you catch the last part about who the back side of the shovel was for? Poor Judges ….. Has two Greedy Idots before him now days … The Plaintiff and the Defendant Both! Both want something they didnt pay for. And what they both are wanting for FREE is his Pension .. The Teachers Pensions …. Do you see Who the back side of the Shovel is for Yet?

  23. May I add they did that via their broker/dealer hedge fund manager perps….well la ti da.. they are all crooks…! I want my satisfaction…

  24. Shadowcat….we certainly didn’t create the $700 trillion dollars in mortgage fraud debt that rendered all of these mortgages insolvent. No…the so called investment bankers did that…

  25. SC,

    No. I went on the attack first and so far, it’s nipped it in the bud.

  26. Shadowcat…why don’t you tell carie she better just be a knucklehead and hire an attorney ….? I can tell carie from personal experience that I have met with several and at the end of those “consultations” strangely enough they all sounded just like bank attorneys. My advice to carie…don’t let the suicide doors up and do suicides on their tour bus. You can do it carie…and don’t believe them.

  27. @Enraged. Have you ever been in or are you in a FC? A simple Yes or No answer……………………… without all that Its their Fault I’m in debt crap.

  28. Ivent,

    “Don’t even try & feed me that crap that criminal acts are not a defenses in fc….if that were the case ….they would have walked away with the place a long time ago.”

    For once, I fully agree with you.

  29. BTW…Don’t even try & feed me that crap that criminal acts are not a defenses in fc….if that were the case ….they would have walked away with the place a long time ago.

  30. Why don’t they just stop the ongoing b.s. and send me my satisfaction of mortgage and withdraw their case that is so rotten with the stench of fraud that the whole courtroom smells like sulfur from its presence…? God forbid someone lit a match, the place would go up in flames..

  31. My request for docs and their non response to my requests cements my claims….That is my way of telling the judge that I know a crime has been committed here. Now, I don’t even think he wants to go there. But if he does, I am more than willing to request a jury trial.

  32. The judge should have dismissed this case last time we were in court based upon the fact there was no assignment attached to the original foreclosure complaint….the UCC requirement … I know that…and he knows that. Now he can’t overlook that and this case is closed except for that ruling by the judge.

  33. Shadowcat…you are being snarky now….I haven’t been feeding on any world domination crap. I have known about that crap for years before any of this other crap happened. Bottom line…I want those documents I requested ….without those, the Judge can’t make a ruling in the favor of the Plaintiffs. No production of docs is an admission of something that the judge cannot overlook…I don’t need an attorney to tell me that, nor do I need an attorney to “fix ” this mess for these crooks. Where’s the docs…?

  34. Ivent, I dont disagree with you at all that what they did was criminal, it absalutly was. I even agree you got screwed … so I threw you 2 lifelines and you didnt catch either one of them because you were to busy feeding on this World Domination crap. Their Criminal Acts are not a defence to fc. If you knew everything… your case would have been dismissed by now. Get an Attorney Knucklehead! Your Gonna Lose the hearing next month if you dont!

  35. Now, I don’t claim to know everything shadowcat, however, I know enough to realize this entire charade stinks like the a lot of rotting carcasses. I have tried to be rational, in fact, I have actually been too kind to the sons of______s on occassion. That got me nowhere. You see, they mistake kindness with weakness and that is when they have you by the throat. So, I say be honest with the judge. This happened to us because of a lot of deception and that is criminal and unacceptable. What this takes is a willingness to look evil right in the eye and tell this evil that….you are a criminal ….and I have the guts to stand up for not only my rights….but I am also standing up for the rights of every single American that you have screwed out of everything. Pity gets you nowhere. It is a sign of weakness. Standing up for your rights is also standing up to for the rights of others and that is powerful. More powerful than this evil or any other evil they can hurl at US.

  36. Ummm… I mean serving up some Justice. Sorry!

  37. Ok then Ivent, Just know that those who know it all and want it all Fail. You come back and let us know how it works for you. I respect people for taking responsibility for their actions, like Carie. Honest to God she is the Only One of very few who have ever did that here. It breaks my Heart she keeps trying to rationalize her choices from two years ago. As a matter of fact, I know what they did with the loan mods Carie .. It was Wrong … no two ways about it! I also understand that $2,000 can not and will not cover your losses. Only You have the Power to take the Power back from them. Search Deep Within and You Will Find the Strength … Your Stronger than You Give Yourself Credit For. Follow your Heart .. I know what i’ve already lost and am about to lose here soon … my life savings. Not just pensions, home equity, but 401ks to boot. And the future looks like this … Higher Taxes and if things dont change … no SS or Medicare. I can do nothing to change these things, but I can be Happy and Enjoy and Protect the Things Most Important to Us. I’m not much for Pitty Parties, when I get knocked down, I get back up, brush myself off and figure out what went wrong and how to fix it so I dont get the same results the next time … but I do Love a Party serving up a Good Can of Whoop Ass! *

  38. Don’t forget shadowcat ….they are insolvent on their balance sheets but all of their ill gotten gains are well hidden. I will take my monetary damages with not a bit of guilt. They on the other hand, should really be in prison. It’s sad, but how many of us really get this…? You really couldn’t help anyone else win because the truth is to explain this makes you sound like an escaped mental patient. Believe me, I’ve tried and failed. Remember who the architects of this evil plan are….? I believe the only real threat those who get it pose to these criminals is our own personal freedom from this tyranny and oppression. That is priceless. Money can buy a lot of things but there are some things in life that money cant buy. Shalalala yeah…!

  39. @Ivent, No one disputes homeowners deserve monetary damages. But we all know the Banks are insolvent. Who are you going after for monetary damages? The Taxpayer or The Invester? Seems to me those would be recouped by equity. Wouldnt you Think? But Hey … what do I know about reasonable? Ask the Judge ….

  40. IMHO..it is not in the least bit greedy to ask for monetary compensation for what they caused. They have gotten away with gazillions in our wealth. For those of us who have taken the time …and a lot of it…. to figure out not just what they did, but what their evil intentions actually were we damn well deserve not only monetary damages but a standing ovation…

  41. @hman .. Trust me, from what you have shared with me, your Attorney knows what she is doing. Just remember to listen to Her! If the banks are not reasonable… pfft…. if the homeowner is not reasonable…pfft …. Any hows … Just set back and enjoy the ride. Reasonable… i.e. Dont ask for more and dont ask for less than what is already yours.

  42. Hello Shadowcat,

    Thanks. I do have an attorney who has been very helpful. She has already stopped the home sale multiple times and fended off these bastards. This is how I uncovered the 15D-6, with help but that is where the road ends.

    Just because they stopped reporting doesn’t mean the trust was closed only that the membership fell below 300 shareholders. This is my laymens understanding.

    I’ve asked about the note not getting to the trust and attorney advised not to allege anything we can’t prove as in non-judicial state the burden of proof is on us. If you have proof that puts the burden on the defendant and off of you.

    That is why I’m asking about the 15D-6. If I could prove the trust was closed the defendant would be sunk I think. Even if the “trustee” is licensed in your state (mine is) how could they collect on a trust that was closed.

    I think 2 things would be able to help significantly, 1 prove the trust was closed. 2. Show the trust/trustee has already claimed a default and received a tax credit for the loan. If a tax credit was received and they are attempting to collect again for the same loan this would be securities fraud under double dipping. I don’t know how to do these things and if either or both can even be done.

    If anyone has any insight as to how to accomplish either one of these please share.

  43. The Judges avoided these cases like hotcakes. I’ll never forget the day a few years back …. when the Judge looked up and saw me … He knew … He was not going to avoid it. God Bless His Heart! LOL!

  44. Yes it’s true carie, they believe this stuff & they believe so should we. I believe in freedom & independence & I have no sympathy for them and the hell they have tried to make out of the world. I am not bitter. I can forgive their sickness, but I cannot feel sorry for what their intentions were, and how many lives they have destroyed by their greed. That is purely wicked & evil & unforgivable.

  45. @hman, Lifeline … Get an Attorney ASAP! Coming From Someone called a Genuis by Attorneys and Judges Alike! They referred us as the “Poster Family” as what was happing to Middle Class America. Getting Screwed All the Way Around! But we didnt want to pose for pictures or collect a reward … we wanted to be a part of the battle for Justice.

  46. @enraged….that’s the crux of the scam. People willing to believe lies keeps their game going. I feel free & empowered by the truth & I feel sorry for those who don’t want to know. They are the real victims here….In the end, the real bitterness will be in those who chose to believe the lies.

  47. SC,

    Nope. Don’t have it in me…

  48. @Carie, Amen. @Enraged … “Angry and Bitter” Naah! Just taking a Bite Out of Crime. Getting Defensive are We?

  49. re. @enraged’s post:

    “So powerful is the light of unity that it can illumine the whole earth…”

    “The earth is but one country, and mankind it’s citizens….”

    “..The tongue I have designed for the mention of Me, defile it not with detraction. If the fire of self overcome you, remember your own faults and not the faults of My creatures, inasmuch as every one of you knoweth his own self better than he knoweth others…”

    —from the writings of the Baha’i’ Faith


  50. “I’d say you were dilusional.”

    Delusional is good. Delusional is what makes me happy and I’m having a lot of fun here and now watching the world evolve. And in the end, I’ll croak all the same but I’ll croak happy. Beats living a miserable life angry and bitter any day of the week…

  51. The banks are phonies..Outraged my foot……When you know the truth is the States are aiding & abetting the theft of our wealth & property. They are fascists and eminent domain is secret fascism. The Mayor of Chicago is just outright letting the crooks come in & buy fraudclosed properties under the guise of “private investors.” These people are deceptive felons.

  52. I know many have claimed that the notes never made it to the trust. Although, I intend to believe this what can you offer as proof?

    Assuming you know your alphabet soup trust and you locate it on the edgar database. Next you pull up the 15D-6.

    I’m posting the IRS rule here to make it easy.

    Rule 15d-6; Rule 12h-3; Form 15
    Section 15(d) of the Exchange Act provides an automatic suspension of the periodic reporting obligation as to any fiscal year (except for the fiscal year in which the registration statement became effective) if an issuer has fewer than 300 security holders of record at the beginning of such fiscal year. Under Rule 15d-6, a Form 15 should be filed to notify the Commission of such suspension, but the suspension is granted by statute and is not contingent on filing the Form 15. In contrast, Rule 12h-3 permits a company to suspend its reporting obligation under Section 15(d) if the requirements of the rule are met at any time during the fiscal year. Because situations exempted by Rule 12h-3 (e.g. fewer than 300 security holders of record in the middle of a fiscal year) do not meet the literal test of Section 15(d), Rule 12h-3 requires the filing of Form 15 as a condition of the suspension.

    Rule 12h-3; Rule 15d-6; Form 15
    Section 15(d) of the Exchange Act provides an automatic suspension of the periodic reporting obligation as to any fiscal year (except for the fiscal year in which the registration statement became effective) if an issuer has fewer than 300 security holders of record at the beginning of such fiscal year. Under Rule 15d-6, a Form 15 should be filed to notify the Commission of such suspension, but the suspension is granted by statute and is not contingent on filing the Form 15. In contrast, Rule 12h-3 permits a company to suspend its reporting obligation under Section 15(d) if the requirements of the rule are met at any time during the fiscal year. Because situations exempted by Rule 12h-3 (e.g. fewer than 300 security holders of record in the middle of a fiscal year) do not meet the literal test of Section 15(d), Rule 12h-3 requires the filing of Form 15 as a condition of the suspension.

    OK so is this the end of the road? What is the next step here showing the trust is dissolved? (Closed, etc…) Can anyone out there give insight on how to go further? Please help if you know the answer if have any suggestions.

    In AZ the courts have not bought into “show me the note” They have maintained that under a trustee sale the note is not needed to be shown. UCC does not apply to a trustee sale. The courts have stated that that the UCC may apply to the note however trustee sales are actions pursant to the trust deed. I have seen many times the judges say that just because the plantiff doesn’t know who the beneficiary is does not afford the homeowner to stop payment, this has not been a valid/successful defense.

    However, I believe if you could show that the trust was closed you would stop the trustee from foreclosing. There has to be a way to research if the trust is still in existence, however, we need someone wiser than I to show us the way.

    Throw us a lifeline. Help!

  53. Of course what you see is Beautiful. . Like I said, …. The Rest of Us Americans will be picking up your Tab with our Tax Dollers and Pensions. If your looking for Happiness deriving from a Fraud .. I’d say you were dilusional.

  54. No many how many times you roll the dough …. It all comes down to Personal Responsibility for Everyone! The Truth Shall Set You Free! If you can not admit the truth … you probably dont have a snowballs chance in Hell of Winning Anything.

  55. SC,

    “My ansesters come here from England…” And they came here uninvited, killed all the natives and stole the land of their own ancestors. “Do not judge or you shall be judged. And as you measure onto others, it will be measured onto you.”

    You want to have that useless and meaningless discussion. I don’t. You represent the past. I am looking to the future. And what I see is beautiful.

  56. A little English, a dash of Indian, with a slither of Irish. Married a Mutt to …

  57. Mutt…. Mixed Breed, American. Does that offend Andyone?

  58. I could have written that. Unfortunately, I didn’t: someone else beat me to it. The fact of the matter is: you can be angry, jealous, envious, resentful, disgruntled, hateful. You can play the blaming game until the cows come home (and that’s may take a very, very long time) and look for the enemy everywhere and in everyone, deprive yourself of joy, day in, day out, or you can open your eyes and start looking at what is rather than what was. The future you imagine is the one you will have. But it doesn’t affect anyone else one way or the other… and in the end, you’ll still croak!

    “Why I’m not afraid of a New World Order

    Quite simply… we need one. The old world order is archaic, primitive and irrelevant. In fact, we desperately need a new world order. We will definitely have one. The only question is, what kind of world order will emerge? How will we get there? What will the journey be and the outcome and the timeline? Whose world will it be? Ours, or theirs? Who is us? Who is them?

    To me, us is everyone except them. Them is a very small collection of people who control virtually all of the wealth, drop all of the bombs, and perpetuate the idea that the current state of affairs is the only way. A lot of us give them their power. With our apathy, our willful ignorance and our desire to not shuffle the deck… lest we end up lower in the pile.

    But the point is, despite what a lot of people seem to think of me, I am not your average conspiracy theorist, and I do not fear a new world order. I yearn for it. I hope for it. I think it can’t come soon enough. Plenty of the things people are frightened of (for example the dissolving of borders between Canada, America and Mexico) are not such horrific ideas. In fact, I think we need to dissolve all borders. Countries and nations, in their current arrangement, are no longer relevant.

    We have gotten to a point in our evolution where what we know does not match what we do or how we behave. Things people say they ‘believe’ are actually things they regurgitate because other people have been saying them for so long it’s become something we all just say… but the facts do not remotely support them.

    Nations are still at war over ancient invisible boundaries and meaningless illogical beliefs; people are starving and dying on the streets with supermarkets packed with food a block away; technology is stifled because only profitable science is invested in, not useful science; animals and plants are dying… in fact, the earth is dying. The very orb which makes our unique existence possible we are knowingly destroying. Social and economic systems across the globe are crumbling, dictators are being toppled as ‘we’ march in the streets. ‘They’ are quickly learning the old world order will not do. Once again, the question remains… what will emerge?

    This should be the focus of your anger, of your fear, of your passionate debates. Fear not a shadowy, hidden, illuminati of reptilian alien overlords. Instead… embrace the potential for a new, updated, relevant arrangement. Stop talking about the weather and the Kardashians, and talk about how we all understand the frustration of Egyptians, Syrians, Greeks, Chinese, Irish and Iranians. Talk about how how none of those nationalities mean a thing in the new world order. That’s old world order talk. To us, now, in the new world… we are all human. No matter what they try to tell us. There is no Egypt, no Syria, no Iran. Just us. And them.

    And in our new world order… we don’t need them.”

  59. My ansesters come here from England also on a Skiff. Oh wait that was their name … Dr Skiff. Once here they fought in the Wars to protect the Freedoms they were given here. The fought those wars for Americans living on this soil. They are Highly decorated War Heros! Dont have much need for those who desagrate those who fought and gave their lives so you could enjoy your freedom. Dont have much use for those who will not stay and fight like our Forefathers … or Those who wont admit personally responsibility for their debts. You can easily direct yourself and make this conversation about foreigners, but the Truth is …. This is about personal responsibility by Everyone! signed Mutt

  60. @Las Vegas,

    When judges start having a sense of humor, that’s when things start moving in the right direction. That’s when they really, really, really get the insanity of it all.

    I keep saying we are on the up mode. Maybe individually it doesn’t feel like it but we’ve been getting out of this self-imposed 40-year-in-the-making slumps since 2010, when most of the truth started coming out.

    Downhill always goes faster than uphill. And downhill is always easier. Making our way back up will take more sacrifice. The choice is to embrace it as the evidence of things going better or to start watching your neighbors for what they may get that you didn’t and that’s “unfair and unjust!!!” (as so many do here)

    And for those ready to shoot the “foreigners”, I have news for you: that concept is pretty much gone. Countries and borders are a thing of the past. Only fearful people can justify giving their life for a thing of the past. Look at people, look at the largest mixing of races ever, look at people expatriating themselves and settling elsewhere. When you have roots in two countries, you’re loyal to both but you don’t belong to either: you become a citizen of the world and you don’t need to fight to preserve your identity. Then it becomes quite simple: you care for humanity as a whole, not just the inhabitants of Columbus Ohio or Springfield Il.

    Small mentalities resist change. Resisting makes no difference: change comes when it decides to.

  61. here’s something from judge schack, love this man:

    Judge tosses foreclosure suit by ‘living dead’ bank IndyMac
    By Nate Raymond

    ” Something scary has been haunting a homeowner facing foreclosure in Brooklyn — a “living dead” bank that a judge compared to Dracula.

    In a decision Thursday involving an apparent case of robo-signing, Kings County Supreme Court Justice Arthur Schack questioned how the failed thrift IndyMac Federal Bank could have initiated a foreclosure on a $460,000 mortgage when the bank ceased to legally exist three weeks earlier.

    For IndyMac to have standing to foreclose on homeowner Mendel Meisels’ property “would be the legal equivalent of a vampire — the ‘living dead,'” Schack said.”


  62. OOps! Too late… We sold everything decades ago to private companies. We The People don’t own anything anymore.

    The good thing is: we don’t have to bother with infrastructure maintenance anymore since it belongs to “others”.

    The bad thing is: whom do you go after when the bridges collapse on top of you, sewage backs up in your basement, trees start growing in the roadways, etc? Remember yesterday’s number: unemployment down but… construction job not going up at all!

  63. Speaking about eminent domain…

    Interesting tidbit about what happens then a country owes money like… the US owes China and India, for example. This is about Argentina whose president won’t cave in to debt collectors who’re going for big. This is about having a bridge for sale in Brooklyn? Not so farfetched after all!

    Read on and see the future unfold….

    A Hedge Fund Has Physically Taken Control Of A Ship Belonging To Argentina’s Navy
    By Joe Weisenthal

    Oct. 4, 2012, 5:28 AM

    Wikimedia Commons

    The above ship is the ARA Libertad, a training ship owned by the Argentine navy.

    And now it’s been seized. By a hedge fund. While it was docked in Ghana.

    Why? Because Argentina is in a long legal battle with the hedge fund Elliott Capital Management, which has been trying for years and years to get Argentina to pay a 2001 bond it owes in full. Because recently won a court judgment saying that Argentina owes it money, it was able to get an injunction from the government of
    Ghana saying it’s entitled to take the ship.

    The FT’s Sam Jones and Jude Webber report:

    The hedge fund, run by the US billionaire Paul Singer, has been closely monitoring the course of the Libertad, according to sources familiar with the firm.

    Elliott had been waiting for the ship to stop in a port where it would have a chance to enforce legal judgments previously awarded by UK and US courts. The hedge fund declined to comment.

    The whole thing is quite dramatic.

    There were apparently 200 navy members on board the ship, according to Argentine news outlet Clarin.com.

    According to reports, Argentina will be able to get this ship back if it pays an unspecified amount in bond (basically bailing it out).

    Here’s the full statement from the Argentine government, via Rolf`s Griechenland Blog:

    The vulture funds have crossed a new limit in their attacks on the Argentine Republic. The Frigate Libertad has been held in the Republic of Ghana over a recourse presented by NML Group before the courts of that country. The Argentine Foreign Ministry has already taken steps with the African nation’s government to clear up the deception that the unscrupulous financiers have mounted. That measure is in violation of the Vienna Convention on diplomatic immunity.

    The vulture fund NML has its headquarters in the Cayman Island, a fiscal lair that it’s worth recalling is a colony of Great Britain, from which those who don’t submit themselves to the laws of any jurisdiction operate and they’ve been denounced both by the G-20 and the United Nations.

    That group of lobbyists are the same that tried to harass the President during her recent trip to the United States passing out aggressive fliers against the presidential investiture. Another of its actions was to place a gigantic rat in the doorway of the Argentine embassy in Washington when the anniversary of our independence was being celebrated.

    The Foreign Ministry reiterates that it is the decision of President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner to not bow before the international and local attempts at extortion that have been brought forth by the vulture funds and will continue to denounce them in various forums such as the G-20, the United Nations, CELAC, UNASUR and MERCOSUR, FATF and the other multilateral organizations.

    This really seems like the ultimate 21st century finance story.

  64. @Eule, so one wonders what is the end game ? to force everyone into BK? i would rather sit down on the ground and refuse to work another day than them to have ill gotten gains via fraud and the home and now want to enslave me in bankruptcy for 5 years, how productive is that. also if its not a mortgage, as carie i believe correctly states then it should be void ab initio and it is identity theft and conterfeiting your signature for other agreements we were never party to nor agreed, to be used as patsy, if its used for a securites scam then problemo , for them because its governed by other legalalities and if its unsecured the statute of limitations is different and so it may have tolled already, i have junk debt buyers calling me, and i have never loaned any money from them or whom they say they are collecting for, rude little men getting rough on the phone i tell them listen in all respect i know its your job n all but two words, and it is not happy birthday. the sad part is you MUST respond to their claims within 30 days you must send your ceases and desist return reciept ect ect, its a royal PITA to keep having to fight but fight them you must, now attorneys here is another area you can help us, make those junk debt buyers pay us for harrassment false claims ect. GOODSPEED.

  65. Sc. No no rage on otherwise I agree in part that if you come here like my mum told me ” when in Rome do as Romans do” that means embrace take the good and disregard the bad part … It’s great- hold on tight to right to an opinion and freedom to speek whatever’s on your mind . I was just sayin. : ))

  66. I Embrace Diversity here in America! Thats what makes it so Great! We are a nation of compassionate human beings, we help where help is needed… But when someone comes to America to take advantage.. free collage education, link, housing, heath ins. all via the taxpayer who can not even afford to do these things for their own family. My Biskets Burn! And when institutions and people cant admit responsibility for their actions and try to point the finger … Its their fault! Burns my Biskets! And when somebodys want to take the money and run abroad…. I shoud keep my mouth shut,.. but I cant, and I didnt, and now I am in trouble with my babysitter. Sighs

  67. N.Y.Mortgage Probe Said to Get Extension to Sue 12 Firms
    By David McLaughlin – Oct 4, 2012 9:58 PM ET

    New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman is looking into the mortgage securities practices of at least a dozen financial institutions that have agreed to suspend a deadline for him to bring fraud claims, according to a person familiar with the matter.

    Schneiderman, who sued JPMorgan Chase & Co. (JPM) this week for defrauding mortgage bond investors, has so-called tolling agreements with 12 institutions that preserve claims that could expire during a state investigation, according to the person, who declined to be named because the matter isn’t public.

    Schneiderman is the co-chairman of a state-federal taskforce that is investigating misconduct in the bundling of mortgage loans into securities in the run-up to the financial crisis. The group includes the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission and the Justice Department, and the JPMorgan case was its first legal action.

    The tolling agreements, reached this year, stop the clock on the six-year statute of limitations and ensure Schneiderman can bring civil fraud claims against banks for conduct going as far back as 2006, said the person. The agreements don’t necessarily mean that suits will be filed, the person said.

    JPMorgan, based in New York, is one of the 12 financial institutions that have tolling agreements. The names of the others couldn’t be learned.

    Monumental Losses

    In the lawsuit against JPMorgan, Schneiderman said Bear Stearns, which JPMorgan took over in 2008, deceived investors about defective loans backing mortgage bonds, resulting in “monumental losses.”

    The attorney general said in a conference call with reporters after the JPMorgan lawsuit was filed that investigations continue and that other cases would be filed over mortgage securities.

    “We do expect this to be a matter of very significant liability, and there are others to come that will also reflect the same quantum of damages,” Schneiderman said in an interview with Bloomberg Television. “We’re looking at tens of billions of dollars, not just by one institution, but by quite a few.”

    The top five issuers of mortgage securities without government backing in 2006 included Bank of America Corp.’s Countrywide Financial unit, Bear Stearns and Washington Mutual, also since acquired by JPMorgan, according to trade publication Inside MBS & ABS.

    Credit Suisse Sued

    A Credit Suisse Group AG (CSGN) unit was sued yesterday by a national credit union regulator that accused the bank of selling faulty mortgage-backed securities to three credit unions, causing them to collapse.

    Credit Suisse Securities misrepresented the securities’ risks, leading the credit unions to believe there was little chance of losing money when they bought $715 million worth of them, the National Credit Union Administration said in a complaint filed in federal court in Kansas City, Kansas.

    The securities were sold to U.S. Central Federal (CFBK) Credit Union, Western Corporate Federal Credit Union and Southwest Corporate Federal Credit Union. All three failed and resulting losses are paid by a fund supported by assessments on all federally insured credit unions, NCUA said in a statement.

    Jack Grone, a spokesman for Credit Suisse in New York, declined to comment on the lawsuit.

    To contact the reporter on this story: David McLaughlin in New York at dmclaughlin9@bloomberg.net

  68. K gotta stick up for the foreigners. Enraged u n sc ( bloody hell stop lol ) let me say this sc- I brought money skills and hard work to the us I paid far too much tax dollars just like you dear, to be sent to the caymans I work along side Americans. I am English American I am for ever changed bacause I embraced the culture but I don’t forget my roots I am a Brit only by the luck of geography and so what’s your point on that issue. I work along side you for truth justice peace and as DCB reminds us ” the pursuit of happiness”.

  69. http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=212306

    Chris Whalen On JPM And Fraudclosure (IMPORTANT!)

    Heh heh heh….

    What is really interesting is that the legal complaint filed by Schneiderman talks about sloppy procedures for loan selection, but still does not get to the real fun, namely multiple pledges of loans for different RMBS. And you can be sure that Schneiderman does not really want to go that far because it might force him to ask the same question about the other, far larger issuers of RMBS.

    Remember, the whole point of the Robo-signing settlement is not consumer protection, but rather fraud. The key question: Who’s got the note? If you don’t have to deliver the note into an RMBS trust, then the door is wide open for securities fraud.

    What’s being talked about here is the NY lawsuit against JPM (really Bear Stearns, but now JPM since they bought it) for securities fraud.

    I have long maintained (since this crap begain to become public in 2007 and 2008) that the 900lb Gorilla in the room was going to come about when someone managed to bring the following argument before a Judge in a foreclosure action:

    Your Honor, defendant moves that the plaintiff be required to show a full and complete accounting of all activity of the subject claimed note, including but not limited to:

    Where the actual funds came from to fund the loan he entered into, and whether they ever actually existed or were fabricated out of thin air.

    The chain of custody of the note he signed, including the consideration paid for its negotiation each time it was negotiated, and that it was pledged and negotiated exactly once into one trust, and that this occurred in a lawful manner on or prior to the closing date of said trust.

    All financial events at a line-item level of detail, identifying each payee and payor along with each event from the date of origination to the averred default being sued under, including not only payments made and alleged payments missed along with penalties and interest but also any and all swaps collected upon or other transactions that acted as insurance or in any other way mitigated the plaintiff’s or any other party at interest’s damages.

    The intent here is quite simple — not only is there a judicial interest in guaranteeing that the person who is standing before the judge is really the assignee of the note (or his lawful agent) and there is only one of them out there (who is the one standing before the bar) in addition you can only collect on a loss via lawsuit or other payment once!

    If you get into a car accident and your auto insurance pays your $20,000 in damage you cannot then sue the person who hit you, as you were made whole and you can only collect once. In point of fact the insurance company will almost-certainly force you to sign over your right to sue to them before they pay you, but if they don’t you still can’t sue the person who hit you as you have no economic harm as you were already paid!

    Recovery by lawsuit, including foreclosure, requires economic harm. If there was no economic harm there is no foul and your judgment, which you may well be entitled to, is for $0.00. Further, if the person who actually suffered the harm isn’t the one in court he can’t recover anything because the wrong person is suing and only a real party at interest with economic harm can sue.

    So if the bondholder was made whole via a credit default swap or any other act, including rescission, his claim on you is extinguished. The person who sold him the swap may have a legal claim via lawsuit or the person who was forced to buy back the bogus loan may have a right of recovery but he cannot foreclose unless he obtained possession of the defaulted instrument through that process of payment and if he does then he had better be the person standing in the courtroom before the judge.

    This is really basic stuff here folks — you don’t get sue because you’re “butt-hurt” by someone’s acts; you can only sue to recover actual economic injury, whether your requested remedy is foreclosure or simple money damages.

    Chris is onto this but this rabbit hole goes a lot further than many people think it does.

    If — and this is a big if — we can get just one honest judge to hear these arguments and force that accounting to take place in his courtroom then the game is up.

  70. @BSE…. I’m not sure homeowners will ever see those homes worth what was paid for them. What is most worrysome is that the titles (before the flippers came in) were already corrupted. Title must be reset and loans must be written down to actual property values. Lets keep our Fingers Crossed the Last Chapter is a Good One.

  71. BSE… If Obama told the people what the Investment Banks did and that they (the banksters) lobbied Congress and gave Insider Trading Tips to those who helped them pass) Dodd Frank Act to give them protections to do it. There would be all out Cival War … He knows..Dodd and Frank Act has his hands tied and he is trying to save lives. But there are also previsions in Dodd Frank that the Bankers dont want to talk about, but now have to…. Remember talking about Good Bank..Bad Bank and how Good Bank was made BK remote? And Bad Bank got Toxic Waste? Well it time to sell the Good Bank and say ByeBye to the Canerous Limbs ….. TBTF has been spliting off in to pieces and selling off the profitable assets. Hint! Hint! TBTF is getting much smaller.

  72. Another reason to love California…


    National Bank of Canada foreclosing Americans’ homes over credit card debt

    By Stephen C. Webster
    Friday, October 5, 2012 13:15 EDT

    The National Bank of Canada is attempting to foreclose upon hundreds of American families’ homes in California over old credit card debts, according to a published report.

    Bay Citizen reporter Rick Jurgens writes that the bank’s debt collection unit, Credigy Receivables, began filing foreclosure lawsuits recently that take advantage of a loophole in California’s laws that lets them go directly for a debtor’s home even if that property was not offered as collateral for a loan.

    Jurgens explained that one of the people targeted by the new legal tactic is 71-year-old Helen Jones, an Oakland resident who lived in her home for 37 years before Credigy sued in 2010 over $1,636 in credit card debt her ex-husband ran up. She claimed the bank offered to settle the debt and drop the foreclosure for $7,000, and that she ultimately paid them $3,800 just to get it all over with.

    They can get away with this because California has left the relatively new practice of third parties buying and selling debts virtually unregulated, creating legal space that lets banks go directly after valuable assets that were never offered as security for loans.

    California State Sen. Mark Leno (D) filed a bill in 2011 called the “Fair Debt Buyers Practices Act” that sought to make third party collectors log the transactions that led to a consumer’s debts, rather than today’s common practice of purchasing a list of names and numbers without supporting information that proves the debt.

    That bill passed the California Senate, but was relegated to a quiet death in an assembly committee after banking industry lobbyists voiced concerns.

    The buying and selling of debts on the consumer level arose in the 1990s, after President Bill Clinton agreed with Republicans and signed a banking deregulation bill that allowed the merger of the consumer and investment banking sectors and enabled the creation of credit default trading on Wall Street.

    That market was worth $62 trillion in 2008, but it grew to more than $708 trillion by the end of June 2011, according to the Bank for International Settlements, which noted that the total value represented 18 percent growth in just the first half of 2011. The World Bank says the global gross domestic product was $69.97 trillion in 2011, up from $21.9 trillion in 1990.

    The Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act sought to address the financial chaos caused when debt-backed derivative bubbles collapse, which was one of the key factors leading to the 2008 financial crisis that nearly put the global financial system into complete gridlock. However, new regulations issued by Obama’s Consumer Financial Protection Bureau only seek to limit derivatives speculation in certain industries, like food and oil, leaving many of the president’s own allies — including the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas — to say that the administration’s landmark reforms didn’t go far enough.

  73. refering to what Marc Stopa said, i sat in the bank sorting out a stolen credit card (and BTW i moved to credit union, not insured by FDIC and the shareholders are its local members who live in a 10 mile radius) anyhoo i sit there and the banker gals dont know their job (because they are not trained to know) and theres music playing like im in the lounge at at he airport with a g n t and i talk to these employees and i get their opinion and they are disgusted by “strategic defaulters” this is the crap they are fed and they believe it. and its like im a a totally warped reality sat there music playing n all, i was so uncomfortable- and there was no coffee left and i waited for ages because they cut their staff…for the love wake up people.


    Also this response to your other comments:

    “He is getting it wrong. Prospectus says nothing of the kind. Prospectus says that loans may or may not be GSE compliant. Almost every Prospectus says this. No one knows. But, they were NOT. He is making a big mistake to call these loans “mortgage” loans. If they were “compliant” — they would have been directly purchased/refinanced by GSE — and not placed in one of these so called subprime (false) trusts.

    But, that is not the focus. The focus is that that no one knows what is reported about them to the GSEs. At subprime refinance, loan is paid — but not by the borrower. Loan is paid by servicer/mortgagee, with insurance proceeds, to purchase from the GSEs. Yes, — loan is paid — just not by the borrower. Borrower remains in default — with the GSE — and with the subprime refinance so-called lender.

    Certificate investors purchased cash pass-through rights derived from these fabricated subprime loans — that is all. No derivative of a “mortgage” loan, because there was NO mortgage loan. Nothing needed to be financed (except any cash-out), thus, security investors did not fund the loans. There were no loans to fund.

    Derivatives on valid mortgages exist, but the derivatives, and securities, and loans, attached to the subprime, were not valid. They were bogus. And, investors are winning monetary settlements.

    But, homeowner victims REMAIN victims.

    Final sentence from @iwantmynvp— quote — “the certificate investors (actual) bought nothing other than a derivative of the cash produced by the mortgage loans” — makes absolutely NO sense. This is NOT how derivatives work.

    While default swaps are derivatives of the cash proceeds — they act as credit enhancement to insure cash pass-through. This is not what security investors invested in. And, further, credit default swaps derivatives are contracts — not securities.

    @iwantmynvp needs to study derivatives.

    And, again, these were NOT mortgage loans.


    I am posting these responses to your comments here (from the other article) in case you missed them:

    “…Well — agree about the N.A.s — but disagree as to valid notes. “Paid in Full” is meaningless — if borrower’s refinance funds were not used to pay in full. Question is — whose funds where used??? Can you prove borrower funds were used because the note is stamped “PAID IN FULL”????? NO.

    Forget the swap provider now. The issue is before swap provider kicks in. Swaps kick in when the entire trust is in default —- this is what happened and caused the bail-out.

    We are talking about individual loans placed in default — just PRIOR to refinance. That is, reported to the GSE’s as in default. Liens are invalid, discharges are invalid, cancellations are invalid, refinances are, of course, then also invalid. There are some loans that were not even discharged with an invalid discharge — they were not discharged at all. And, trace the payoff check — you think that the funds from that check went to the GSE??? NO. Servicer advanced instead. Where did those “payoff” funds really go?? To the prior securitized trust??? NO — SEC can tell you that.

    But, yes, agree that N.A.s own all the notes and possess each one. Disagree that they are VALID NOTES. And, the reason they claim to own anything is because the N.A.s purchased COLLECTION RIGHTS — and falsely called the “notes” refinances.

    You are on right track — but need to go further. If you do, you will understand that the “loans” were simply modifications of (false) default debt. But, yes, you will find out — that the N.A.s are at the head of the class.”


    “…Yes — a heist.

    But—this is more that GSE rejection. This is FABRICATED DEFAULT presented by the servicer to the GSE — just prior to the refinance in question. Oh, yes, that IS the refinance foreclosure people are battling in court.

    And, no one is bringing up that the prior loan was not paid off — as it should have been — as reported to the GSE — BY THE BORROWER (not by servicer advance or mortgagee).”

    (My friend has irrefutable proof of ALL of this.

  76. Cant FC on someone holding the dough …. But if you gave them the dough … they can not perform. Why you Ask…. because a fraud was commited years ago and the pretender dont wannt pay back all the swaps…..but was happy to hide that fact and collect payments for years and pocket it. Give themselves bonus’s and call it Profit. Sorry E-Tolle… I’ll never grow up…. its No Fun!

  77. If somebody doesn’t go ahead and foreclose on a few of you snarky blog-busters I’m going to start a fund to do it myself. I haven’t heard such childish nonsense since I was in grade school. I pity the tent city that ends up with you folks, but their demise will be LL’s gain.

  78. I am an American, I have made a Mistake. I will accept responsibility and I will apoligize. I apoligize to Enraged , she did not use those exact words, but the statements about the Foreign Islands sipping Expensive drinks suggested the same as my statement, but never the less Enraged is correct.. not her exact words. I live in reality Hon, That is why I give folks living in lalala land a reality check. Life is Not a Free Ride in America! For Anyone! Give me a Break! Drugs … hahaha! Thats the best you can do? I may be guilty of spending a few to many years playing in circle time and teaching responsibility for ones choices and actions. Teaching about the bad guys in real life! The perverts, the freeloaders,the deadbeats and the Greedy. Now whos responsibility was that for taking the credit? Didnt your Teacher and Family teach you to say NO Thank You?

  79. SC,

    “You’ve suggested many times you are taking the money and leaving US soil.”

    By all means, post where I said that. I’m sure you can find it and “cut-and-paste”.

    Lots of disgruntled people on this site… Maybe that’s why so many are also very, very ill. Odd… I don’t even take one medication. A healthy mind in a healthy body.

  80. You’ve Bragged about being a foriener, You’ve suggested many times you are taking the money and leaving US soil. Wether you’ve made up your mind or not is irrelavent. I still dont have much need for any type of folk who would take Americans Sweat & Blood and even suggest taking it to foriegn soil. If it tastes like Romney … It must be Romney. Just Saying ..

  81. @Shadowcat

    I did not buy something I could not afford. My neighborhood has been deflated over $ 200,000. Homes are now vacant . Mainly because of the dishonest banks, Wall Street and the Government’s currency war. Most foreclosures were due in part by investors “ flipping houses”. Not deadbeats. In the end the builders and bankers had a joint venture. They are the winners. Honest homes owners like myself who pay on time got screwed and will never recover. Thanks to Clinton, Graham Greenscum , Bush, Obama
    And the other S.O.Bs that I collected my vote on Captital Hill. Now we have another Son of Bitch who keeps telling us that he cares but does not understand or will not tell the truth. Romney and Obama continue the cover up and state that homeowners bought too much house. Bullshit Obama and Romney ! Bite my ass,! Come to Phoenix where the vales doubled over night with in 2 years and speak to the families who were kicked of the curb in fear that if they did not buy today they would never be able to afford tomorrow. Explain the truth to the Doctors who on my street that said F-K you , the police officer and his wife who works full tome, the fireman and his wife who works full time, the Airline Pilots and other who said F-K you – I am leaving. The only on one satisfied is Obama who continues to lie and now another liar moving into his place. It is called destruction of property.. Something Congress does not understand . Go Green Clean up Congress. ! we are better off dumping names into a basket, hold a lottery, and see who becomes the next president. Again Bite ME Obama and Romney – neither of you are deserving as you will continue to cover t=for the banking cartel.

  82. SC,

    I am American. Foreigner but American. One does not exclude the other. Otherwise, I couldn’t be in Federal court… And I paid my dues. As far as leaving, you don’t know that. I sure have plenty of opportunities but i haven’t decided.

    And I vote too.

  83. I was just thinking. So we all know that MERS is the record keeper for the “lender” right? What about the “trustee”. What I’ve experienced is the Assignment of mortgage happens first (which we know is fraud). Then follows the “Substitute of Trustee”.

    This has to be done because the title companies don’t want the liability. So what happens if you took them out of the equation before an assignment could be done? How could this be done? MERS database only has info on the “owner” and the servicer…not the trustee. So if you could invalidate the trustee prior to the AOM you could IMO challenge the SOT?

    Just a thought not legal advice.

  84. You havnt won yet … dont get a Big Head about who is right and who is wrong. Especially for someone who is in Federal Court. I agree you were sold a fraud and are entitled to a refund… but that is about as far as it goes. Dont care much for opinions of forieners (non Americans) who think because somebody screwed them … Everybody should pay. Cant take no responsibility for their part in it. Your gonna leave American Shores with your wanna be loot, …. easy for you to do while the rest of us stay here on American Soil and pay for YOUR Mistake and still Risk our Lives fighting to Jail those Insiders involved without bringing down the entire system and the American Economy with it. PFFFT… Dont care much for Foreniners getting a Free Ride and a Bonus to Boot on my Tax Dollers & Pension! Just My Opinoin of Course …

  85. SC,

    Sure. I’ll agree to disagree. Know why?

    Because I’m right!

    As usual… 🙂

  86. Lets just agree to disagree. This is another one of our differances we have. I get Buried in Junk Mail trying to sell me something, A new house .. a new car… A credit card, .. auto loans & vacum cleaners. Does not mean I can afford them because somebody else says so. NO! You do your Finances… You know better than anyone else what they are. I’ve set at the end at the closing table for years …TRUST ME… there are only two Origionators … The Broker collecting a hefty YSP from an Investmant bank who will securitize it (or pretend to) . The other party at the table was the Borrowers . Let me tell you Sweetie … Both were Big Fat Liers and the Broker knew the Investment banks were so buried with back log… it would be years before it was discovered. Sheeesh!

  87. @shadowcat

    “his ace” ? I could surely use some good news if you have some.

  88. Pass mustard…? Naaah. Doen’t sound right. Pass muster is more like it. Oh well!

  89. SC,

    Yeah but there is one thing that is really bothering me. Granted, people have used and abused their credit but… how could they do that? Simple: the banks were too happy to oblige. Who owed the greater duty to whom?

    My argument will remain the same until the day I croak: there is something fundamentally wrong and unfair when holding borrowers to the level of expertise owed by professionals. Last time i checked, “No” was still a full sentence. Borrowers had all the rights in the world to ask for credit. It doesn’t mean that it had to be automatically granted by the experts, no question asked and no due diligence performed. Enabling is, in many instances, actionable if it results in innocent third-parties’ injuries. If I own a bar, I keep serving you knowing that you are already halfway in the bag and I allow you to leave drunk and get in your car, I am partially liable for any damages you cause.

    If I am a bank, I grant you credit knowing that you can’t pay and I fudge the numbers to pass mustard with the regulators; if, further, you default or, better yet, if you don’t default but I push you into default by “losing” your payments, not only am I not liable but, in addition, I collect $23 millions for a performance that doesn’t have be, according to Fannie, “necessarily good”.

    Actually, it is so insane on its face that every time i mention it, I crack myself up!

  90. Enraged you are right .. they will never admit that. They will dearly pay thou. In part they are right … Consumers must accept responsibility for over spending. Buying things they knew they could not afford without credit. I didnt expect either of them to talk about the other “HALF OF THE TRUTH” during the Debate. Wait til you See Obama’s Ace in his Pocket. He will play it soon … before elections that is.

  91. @ Enraged

    Honest Banks do not inflate appraisals. Honest originators and banks do not loan money to people who cannot afford the loan. Honest Banks care about the collateral and want the home owner to pay off the loan in return. Instead the loan was designed to fail.
    I am pissed at both the clowns who claim they are honorable to be President of this great nation. Neither speak the truth; both continue to manage their campaigns with stolen money. Both are capable of providing cover for those truly responsible and should be jailed. Go Green Clean up congress !

  92. No comment.


    The Big Lie in the 2012 Presidential Election

    Posted on October 4th, 2012 by Mark Stopa

    During last night’s debate, I watched in horror as Obama and Romney both blamed homeowners for the mortgage crisis and ensuing financial collapse. Even as they disagreed about everything under the sun, Obama and Romney joined in unison, arm in arm, blaming homeowners for entering mortgages they “couldn’t afford.”

    Pardon me for interrupting, but what planet do these guys live on? When I heard it live, it sounded like pure crazy-talk. I thought for sure, once I reviewed the transcript of the debate, that I’d realize I heard it wrong, or it wasn’t as bad as it first sounded. Nope. Sure enough, I checked the transcript, and both Obama and Romney are blaming homeowners! Check out their own words:

    Obama: “You had people borrowing money to buy a house that they couldn’t afford.”

    Romney: “You say we were giving mortgages to people who weren’t qualified. That’s exactly right. It’s one of the reasons for the great financial calamity we had.”

    Meanwhile, what was noticeably absent from this entire conversation? Any mention whatsoever of the real cause of the calamity – how banks were incentivized to loan to every Tom, Dick, and Harry … to create securitized, alphabet soup trusts … by our federal government, which promised to pay the loans in full if the homeowners defaulted.

    Yes, as I’ve repeatedly attempted to explain on this blog, including here, here, and here, “our” federal government incentivized banks to lend at the unprecedent rates we saw during the boom by guaranteeing it would pay the banks the full loan amount if the homeowners defaulted. Hence, the banks had nothing to lose by lending to anyone capable of signing his/her name on a mortgage – if the homeowner paid, the bank had a performing loan, whereas if the homeowner defaulted, the government would foot the bill. It was a no-lose position for the banks, facilitated by our government.

    These crazy lending practices have long since passed, of course, but do you know what’s been happening ever since? “Our” government has been footing the bill to these banks, one house after another, just as it promised. As millions of homeowners get foreclosed, “our” government pays these banks, in full. And what is “our” government doing with those foreclosed properties? Selling them to uber-wealthy investors, in bulk, for pennies on the dollar.

    But, as Obama and Romney said, this is the homeowners’ fault. Riiiiigggghhhhttttt. Yup. We’re the ones who created these garbage loans. We’re the ones who incentivized the banks to lend – putting them, basically, in a no-lose position. We’re the ones who profited hand over fist even as the economy around us collapsed.

    Oh, no, wait. We’re the ones who simply bought a house for our family because we had a job and qualified for a loan under the standards imposed by the banks and the government. Now we’re the ones who lost our jobs, our families, and our dignity, while the talking heads blame us for the collapse. Gotcha.

    This is the Big Lie in the 2012 Presidential Election. Apparently that’s politics today … hide the truth, conceal the role of the government in the collapse, and put two talking-heads on stage to shift the blame onto the very people whose votes they seek.

    Are you disgusted yet? Well, don’t expect to read about this in the mainstream media. You see, I’ve told every media member I know about this issue. Lots of good, competent reporters with whom I’ve done many news stories over the years … but nobody wants to talk about this. Obama won’t talk about it. Romney won’t talk about it. The media won’t talk about it. It’s the Big Lie … facilitated by, well, everyone.
    Mark Stopa

  93. Can you see it? ….. Out there … 30% Intrest Rates? 80% taxation? Bankrupt Pensions? Oh yeah … we are going to pay for it all right, ALL OF US! I would not want to be President next term. Especially Romney … Remember what happened to Kennedy? I bet Romney loses the election on purpose so he dont have to face the music. Takes alot of nerve to critisize Obama about Dood Frank .. while he is using it to his advantage and sucking America Dry! Obama kept his mouth shut and his eyes out of view as to not *Smirk*….. he knows what is coming for Romney and his Co-horts!

  94. if the banks dont like it, than perhaps its a good idea, but i see it as a very slippery slope for more corruption to take place

  95. “The problems for the banks is that they have two basic choices — give the money to the investors, making them whole or give back the money to the insurers, CDS counterparties and Federal agencies. They would have no claim on the seizure because by definition they are claiming that the REMIC pools own the debts.”

    Investors? Too funny! They would, in essence, have to open their books to track them down…

    But still no word about fixing what has been caused… And there are hundreds of thousands of people who lost their house following a manufactured default, after having tried to negotiate and negotiate and negotiate.

    So, are we invading Iran and killing the military for another 10 years or are we following the Bible and cleaning up our house before pocking our nose in business that isn’t any of ours…? Whatever is decided, it is coming back to bite us regardless.

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