STUDENT DEBT — Reduction Suggested, Especially for Medical Students

The first thing to think about is how many of these student loans were securitized or are subject to claims of securitization and assignments. Based upon anecdotal evidence collected thus far, most of them were securitized. That means that many of the defenses suggested for mortgage foreclosures are equally applicable to student loans. AND it might, as we have previously suggested, provide an opening for avoiding the exemption from discharge in bankruptcy, where student loans ordinarily cannot be discharged.
The level of student debt has exceeded $1 Trillion, which means that either the banks or the government are going to absorb a huge loss financially. If the Banks “Securitized” the loans then they are facing a huge loss if the loans are paid off, which probably explains why the loans were artificially inflated, like the homes. With the homes it was done through fraudulent appraisals using far-out “comparables” that didn’t apply. With private student loans, the banks pushed the students to take on “extra” money for living expenses and even personal expenses that would be considered luxuries.
The reason is as simple as mortgage meltdown. The debts, the fees and the marketing of these debts were all facets in making medicine — the practice and the protocols — all about the money. Doctors or nurses and other medical people who might want to live in a peaceful small town can’t go there because they are required to keep their income up in order to pay back student debt obligations which are non dischargeable in bankruptcy.
The answer coming from economists is that if we value medicine as a society and the current system is not working because people in all places are dying or suffering as a result of money issues, then it follows that if we want a better society, we should turn the vision of medical people from money to the services we need for our society. Sure the banks will and other people who speak from prepared messages from idealogues are going to scream. But their screams are drowned out  by the grief of those who lose loved ones or watch them suffer.
It doesn’t even make sense economically. If doctors and hospitals were able to turn their debt obligations into something that could be managed without turning away patients in need of medical care, our tax dollars would not be used for the extraordinary expenses of Emergency rooms or procedures that are of doubtful value to the patient but that are necessary to meet the expenses of servicing debt.
Costs would immediately be reduced and we would be on our way back from third world status in the effectiveness of our medical care. We would be able to reduce costs so much that we would be spending the same or less than those countries who provide the same level of care but whose effectiveness is extending life and limiting suffering are by all current measurements far beyond American medicine at half the cost. With costs going down, the profit motive would recede as the helping mode kicked in to remove a huge stresser that interferes with American productivity and innovation.
Our worship of money has distorted the individual values we hold dear. Our society no longer reflects those values and is literally paying for it through the nose. A great number of bankruptcies are filed by people cleaned out by medical expenses that are discharged while the providers never see the relief. The debts that are wiped out include all the debts, not just the target debts like home mortgages, credit cards, student loans etc.
So our current system is unfair, it is too expensive only because of the cost of education, which is prohibitive even with loans, and it is by most accounts declining in quality except for certain procedures on which we have still cornered the market.
The same holds true where debt gets in the way of the survival or vitality of any processes operating in our society. Obama has taken care of a portion of this for future students. But the existing ones see no way out. And this false morality based upon money rather than God or moral imperatives is now reducing the number and quality of teachers, firefighters, first responders, police and other social services that cannot attract great teachers or leaders because it offers a lifetime of slavery to debt.
At a minimum, household debt should be reduced (like  Iceland did it) for those who provide essential services and largest parts of household debt are student loans and mortgage debt both of which were pushed onto unsophisticated and unsuspecting victims of a society where money and banking are the measurements of success instead of service to our society that we all need and expect if government is to mean anything.
Any person who provides these essential services should be either exempted from repayment unless their salary allows it through a means test, much like they don in Chapter 7 bankruptcies now. It doesn’t matter whether the debt is technically designated as student debt, or credit card debt, consumer finance or mortgage. The facts are that we are paying more and getting less. Instead of investing in improving the education of providers of essential services we are firing them for lack of money or making them spend time and money on trying to wrangle out of the debt.
The two best places to start are the private student loans in which the risk was non-existent thus encouraging banks to sell larger loan packages to prospective students than they needed, and Mortgage debt which was done the same way. There is no reason why such loans should be sanctimoniously regarded as off limits. Veterans of foreign wars were given their education and help in buying houses at low rates and easy payments without any “resets” that would ruin their lives as they lost their homes and lifestyles. This makes no sense in a society seeking to survive and prosper. We are practically punishing those who serve their country and creating economic barriers to those who would serve their country and who have a lot to offer.
Even as the battle rages over principal reductions to banks who never had any risk in underwriting loans thus producing ever larger loan packages that could never be read we ought to listen to economists who point out that we are spiraling down as a society even though it appears as though the stock market, for the moment is going up. It’s a good place to start.

The Debt of Medical Students
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/14/the-debt-of-medical-students/

96 Responses

  1. No enraged I don’t believe in drugs….if you educate yourself you will probably find they are more dangerous than the illnesses they treat. They will make you sicker… You caught yourself in a catch 22 with your buddy tnharry…he is who stated we were exhibiting admiration and love for each other on the good side. Surprisingly, in an inobvious way of course, he recognized the truth is a good thing.

  2. @Ivent,

    What’s wrong with you? Are you on medication? If not, you might consider it…

    And no, I didn’t call tnharry stupid. i would have no reasons.

  3. Cost of living increases in a bad economy are evil and are inexcusable. This is CLEARLY all manufactured fraud to oppress the people. Blame…blame…blame others is all Obama does…That excuse no longer holds water. These statistics prove this depression is being completely manufactured by the FED, THE TREAS and WALL STREET…OBAMAS CRONIES…

  4. CNBC ..KUDLOW SAYING GAS PRICES HAVE RISEN 108% SINCE OBAMA TOOK OFFICE……. FOOD PRICES HAVE RISEN…HOUSING PRICES ARE FALLING…
    THE TRUTH IS …IT’S PROOF THIS IS ALL FRAUD FOLKS…! IN A POOR ECONOMY FOOD AND GAS PRICES SHOULD FALL…NOT RISE….SO YOU CAN AFFORD HOUSING AND OTHER THINGS.

  5. Enraged..you are calling tnharry stupid and you are trying to say speaking the truth makes you evil….? So you are saying all the good people are criminals and all the criminals are saints..? You just confirmed evil is the opposite of what we were taught to believe and you are a disinfo agent.

  6. And I am literally blinded by the sainthood emanating from your posts.

  7. Self education does has its advantages and doesn’t require a middle man. Seek the truth and you will find it, is what I believe.

  8. This is complicated…I should have said…they are robbing Peter..paying Paul…pocketing the rest …then robbing Paul too…..BTW enraged..I know evil has no love or admiration for anything of real value because you guys worship false idols and other sick stuff.

  9. Could it be anymore OBVIOUS that these IMPOSTERS who have hijacked the PRIVATE SECTORS WEALTH want the PRIVATE SECTOR to own NOTHING OF VALUE…? THAT IS THE EVIL PLAN….Even the PUBLIC SECTOR WORKERS have a PRIVATE SIDE THE GOVT ROBS FROM….THEY ARE ROBBING PETER …PAYING PAUL…AND POCKETING THE REST….They have used secrets, lies and deceit to defraud the PRIVATE SECTOR…ALL OF OUR WEALTH IS BEING SUCKED OUT BY THE GOVT CORP VIA FRAUDULENTLY INDUCED TAX AND BEING FUNNELED THROUGH THE PUBLIC SECTOR……IT IS ALL FRAUD.

  10. @Tnharry,

    “BTW..tnharry…you might want to leave the darkside and come over to the good side where you can be mutually admired and loved. We have the things money can’t buy…”

    Got that, tn? You looking for “mutual” love and admiration (whatever the hell that means…)

    As i said earlier, not much schooling there… can’t be much of a student loan to repay.

    And yes, you were right: at times, it does get entertaining.

  11. Bloomberg News reporting gold will be (fraudulently) inflated to $2000.00 an ounce because of FED MONEY PRINTING…I read a report that said the FED is causing inflation to keep gold out of the reach of most people. Fraudulently induced inflation by the FED is being done to allow CHINA & RUSSIAN GOVTS TO BUY UP ALL OF OUR GOLD…and property….and they are…

  12. BTW..tnharry…you might want to leave the darkside and come over to the good side where you can be mutually admired and loved. We have the things money can’t buy…

  13. tnharry….your accuations are baseless …they prove nothing. Anything said in the blogosphere can be researched easily and verified or not verified. REMEMBER…TRUST BUT VERIFY..IF YOU CANNOT VERIFY …DO NOT TRUST said RONALD REAGAN…You and a few others obviously have an agenda or you would want the truth to be known. These are more futile attempts to cover up the truth.

  14. @tnharry: Neil isn’t moderating NOR is he caring what you have to say.

  15. Dude, you seriously have issues.

  16. @ivent – of course you agree with Randy. about every 5 comments you both express your love and mutual admiration. i really wonder if you are in fact different people. you accuse me of working for wall street or a bank. i find that interesting because i would submit that the two of you (if there are in fact two of you) have, through your hijacking of the message of this site done more to help the banks than any bank atty would in a month’s time. you’re spouting propaganda, that’s all. this site began with a goal of providing information and a how-to plan to save people’s homes. the purpose and goal of the site no longer works because there is no free flow of information and ideas due to your takeover.

    Neil – i’m trying to help you here before it’s too late. look at the analytics and see if they bear out what appears to be a loss of viewers based on lack of diversity in the comments.

  17. Thank you for your support. I stopped paying taxes. Just got my O.D.R taxes abated for 2009. : )

  18. I agree with Randy. May I add …the only strange mix I see is the GOV. CORP. PRETENDING THEY ARE NOT PUBLIC OWNED…BY THE PRIVATE SECTOR WHO ARE THE U.S. TAXPAYERS.

  19. There will be NO RECOVERY until the FED and the U.S. TREASURY stop recycling the insolvent debts of Wall Street. They are creating more debt that the American people can’t ever repay. It is criminal. All Wall Street gains the last few years are fake. It’s a cover up. Wall Street are not the wealth creators…they are the wealth stealers for the GOV. CORP..

  20. Wow, you must work for Wall Street or a bank.

  21. Neil – that sound you hear is your site circling the drain. Your audience is departing so that ivent can talk to itself in a weird mixture of caps and lower case

  22. I read a while back their final “FIX” for all of their fraud will be a fraudulently induced WORLD TAX….THAT IS HOW THEY WILL TRY TO SEIZE OUR HOMES AND BUSINESSES…LIKE A PROPERTY TAX…ITS ALL FRAUD…! WE HAVE TO REJECT ALL OF THEIR FIXES FOR FRAUD…..IT IS ALL INSOLVENT DEBT THAT CAN NEVER BE REPAID….THEY ARE USING FRAUDULENTLY INDUCED DEBT AS A CONTROL MECHANISM…WE NEED A DEBT JUBILEE ….SUE THE CROOKS….RESTORE THE U.S. CONSTITUTION…ISSUE OUR OWN CURRENCY…WE MUST PRIVATIZE OUR WEALTH IN STATE BANKS AND BORROW RIGHT FROM THE TREASURY…NO FED MIDDLEMAN.

  23. It is true Randy…these crooks owe U.S.TAXPAYERS GAZILLIONS in Origination fraud, usury fraud, and other frauds and for all of their cover ups for fraud…such as their fake stock market collapse and all the bailout money…QE 1 &2……We need a ginormous tax refund because they fraudulently turned EVERY DEBT INTO A TAX..WITHOUT OUR KNOWLEDGE…!

  24. @carie….SORRY, BUT YOU ARE WRONG…THE TRUTH IS… EVERYONE_ DOES_ NOT _KNOW _THESE_ THINGS….AND BY WHAT I HAVE SEEN IN FRAUDCLOSUE COURT….THERE ARE TOO MANY WHO DO NOT KNOW THESE THINGS…SO SPEAK FOR YOUSELF…AND DO NOT SAY THAT EVERYONE KNOWS THESE THINGS…THAT IS ABSOLTELY NOT TRUE.

  25. @iVENT

    You are preaching to the choir—do you know what that means? We already know ALL the stuff you are screaming about. You don’t help anyone when you scream stuff over and over that we already know. Sheesh.

  26. This is why we really need a class action lawsuit against Wall Street.

  27. Wall Street OVERSOLD investments in ALL of their debt. Therefore, ALL OF THE DEBT IS INSOLVENT AND CAN NEVER BE REPAID. THE PRIVATE SECTOR CANNOT AFFORD ANY MORE BAILOUTS OF INSOLVENT DEBTS..FOR ANYONE…..THE PRIVATE SECTOR HAS TOO MUCH INSOLVENT DEBT WE ARE being FORCED TO PAY FOR MASSIVE FRAUD There must be a debt jubilee for ALL..NOT SOME…..OR THE COUNTRY WILL FAIL. THE ONGOING BAILOUTS OF FAILED INSTITUTIONS BECAUSE OF MASSIVE FRAUD COMMITTED BY THESE INSTITUTIONS MUST STOP. IT IS ROBBERY.

  28. The truth is…. the rich have become too greedy. That is how empires always fail. It has always been rule by the rich by robbing the people….However, they have become way out of control. What they want now is complete control of everything and everyone which is….COMPLETE COMMUNISM……this can only be accomplished by making the masses believe lies. THEY ARE PSYCHOPATHIC LYING CONTROL FREAKS WHO DO NOT LEND ANYTHING OF VALUE..THAT IS WHY THEY HAVE NO IDENTITY…NO RECEIPTS …..NOTES…OR LEDGERS OF ACCOUNTING..THAT IS HOW YOU KNOW THE TRUTH IS…..THEY ARE IMPOSTERS, FRAUDSTERS AND COUNTERFEITERS.

  29. Wrong again enraged…! That IS what YOU DO by telling the American People to accept their fraud. THAT IS STUPID….THAT IS WHAT THEY WANT…ACCEPT FRAUD and FAILURE….BELIEVE FAILURE IS PROGRESS SO FAILURE BECOMES NORMALIZED… AND MOVE ON..OH HELL NO..! THE TRUTH IS…..THE FED IS INSOLVENT BECAUSE THEY CREATED A QUADRILLION DOLLARS IN FRAUD WITH OUR ELECTRONIC SIGNATURES WITHOUT OUR KNOWLEDGE. THE FED AND THEIR INVESTORS DO NOT OWN OUR PROPERTY …… AND THEY NEVER DID BECAUSE OF THE ORIGINATION FRAUD…!

  30. I need to clarify that the FED created their INSOLVENT DEBT for their owners who are OUR ENEMIES….as a CONTROL MECHANISM…ALL OF THEIR DEBT IS FRAUD CREATED FROM FRAUD.

  31. @Ivent,

    “The truth is these IMPOSTERS “think” we are too stupid…”

    You sure as hell spend a lot of energy proving them right…! 🙂

  32. Enraged…..THE TRUTH IS……YOU ARE THE FEAR MONGER TRYING TO MAKE PEOPLE BELIEVE THEY SHOULD JUST ACCEPT COMPLETE COMMUNISM..THERE IS NO HOPE….B.S….

  33. The truth is these IMPOSTERS “think” we are too stupid to figure out they are trying to sneak in and FRAUDULENTLY INDUCE……Complete Control of everything and everyone which is…COMPLETE COMMUNISM…..The signs are everywhere….they try to make you believe they have the authority to say you can’t do this or you don’t own anything you worked for your whole life…ALL OF OUR WEALTH JUST DISAPEARED INTO THIN AIR….! after WE THE PEOPLE already paid them for EVERYTHING via the Treasury and they PLUNDERED OUR WEALTH BY OVERSELLING INVESTMENTS IN THEIR ORIGINAL DEBT..and the FED pocketed our payments as interest when they never lent US a dime……The FED are crooks who STEAL U.S. TAXPAYER MONEY incessantly, and NEVER PAY IT BACK….INSTEAD….THEY CREATE and FRAUDULENTLY INDUCE their INSOLVENT DEBTS UPON the American people. OH HELL NO..! It’s all a mind control con game done by IMPOSTERS who use SECRETS, LIES and DECEIT to DEFRAUD THE AMERICAN PEOPLE… They use these methods to try and control the minds of masses of Americans by making them BELIEVE THEIR LIES…! It’s all a load of b.s. THE TRUTH IS….THE FED AND THEIR DEBTS ARE INSOLVENT BECAUSE THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY OUR ENEMIES…

  34. @Ivent,

    You don’t have a clue… Vent as much as you want: whatever is happening will take place whether you agree with it or not. And if you want to believe all that nonsense and scare yourself to death by repeating it over and over, go for it and flip away. If you find people wanting to listen to your ranting and it gives you a sense of purpose and an identity, by all means, go for it!

    I, for one, will not lose my joy because “they” (whoever the hell “they” are) are “communist” and “they” plan to “implant” microchips in people. Ludicrous, preposterous, insane, ridiculous, words cannot even qualify that ignorance and fear mongering. You didn’t go to school much, did you? It shows… I doubt you have any student loans to reimburse…

  35. Then of course there is more deception … here are some of the worst EO’s signed by Obama …These EO’s and OBAMACARE are fascism…it is the Comunist martial plan for complete control of our infrastructure….this will be fraudulently induced suddenly, like a thief in the night because of some manufactured event..if we are not aware of this scam….their crises are always manufactured. THE REASON…..RAMPANT FRAUD TO COVER UP RAMPANT FRAUD…U.S. COURTS HAVE RULED…WHEN FRAUD ENTERS A TRANSACTION…FRAUD VITIATES EVERYTHING….
    http://www.westernjournalism.com/a-comprehensive-list-of-obamas-worst-executive-orders/

  36. This “thing” which is Complete Communism is not “just done” unless, we ACCEPT the microchipped mark of the beast in our bodies. It is hidden in OBAMACARE..Subtitle C-11; section 2521….If they tell you it is for pacemakers etc…they are lying to you….they are great deceivers of mankind.
    http://24hourpatriots.com/profiles/blogs/obamacare-well-we-are-reading-the-bill-pelosi-you-treasonous

  37. @tnharry,

    In many respects, “this thing is just done”. People are flipping because they know something huge is coming worldwide and it is much, much bigger than foreclosures. Foreclosures were only the symptoms of the collapse of an entire society. Look outside of your county and your state toward the world at large and you’ll know that it’s moving at a fast pace, in what appears to be total chaos but in a definite direction so far from anything we have ever known that we can’t even imagine it.

    No wonder people are flipping! No one tells us anything, officials lie through their teeth, we’re being showered with absolute insanity by Lame Street Media and, unless we spend inordinate amounts of time researching what the hell is going on, all we can do is nurture that sense of global uneasiness without knowing which direction to turn to… and flip!

    Something’s got to give and it ain’t as simple as debts, foreclosures, student loans and bank fraud!

  38. : )

  39. I agree with Randy. Everything we said is on topic. There is no need to moderate any comments.

  40. Completely agree with you Ivent.

    @tnharry: Why do we need moderator control? Everything I and Ivent have said has all been on topic.

  41. Neil – you need active comment moderation or this thing is just done. You’ve lost all control and the site has lost its usefulness

  42. tnharry…where’s your argument..? What is it that you don’t understand….? THE PRIVATE SECTOR ARE PAYING AND BAILING OUT PUBLIC SECTOR INSTITUTIONS THAT ARE OVERSOLD AND INSOLVENT AND THAT WILL BANKRUPT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. THEIR DEBT CANNOT BE SUSTAINED BY FRAUDCLOSING OR TAXING THE PRIVATE SECTOR OUT OF EXISTENCE….. ! WHO WILL PAY THE COPS., TEACHERS & DOCTORS etc…WHEN THE PRIVATE SECTOR IS BROKE…? WILL THE PUBLIC SECTOR PAY THEMSELVES?……NO…! THE FED SYSTEM WILL COLLAPSE…! Its not the workers or capitalism that are to blame…it is the CREDIT SYSTEM OF THE FED and FRAUDULENT OVERSELLING OF INVESTMENTS BY WALL STREET ….THEY ARE ROBBING PETER TO PAY PAUL BECAUSE OF TOO MUCH DEBT FRAUD…! The public side is robbing the private side…..that is precisely HOW the GSE’s and WALL STREET pulled off their credit scam…! The FED CREDIT/INVESTMENT SYSTEM WAS A VERY DECEPTIVE SET UP TO FAIL.

  43. Ivent is completely correct! Is doesn’t matter what it is (student loans, foreclosures). If Securitization is the issue for both, then they are both in the same boat.

  44. @ivent – you continue to carpet bomb the site with your comments and you’re just not making sense. i said the comments were off topic and you argued with me. the topic of the article was student loan debt and you somehow twisted that around to fraudclosure. i DON’T understand YOUR motivations OR your LOGIC

  45. Please read and share this petition….
    http://www.petitiononline.com/ConsViol/petition.html

  46. carie…your point is unclear…if you DO NOT point out WHO OUR REAL ENEMIES ARE and THE REASONS FOR FRAUDCLOSURE and other FRAUDS….HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY KNOW WHAT YOU ARE REALLY FIGHTING FOR ? WHAT is being hidden is WHAT this IDEOLOGY IS…(COMPLETE COMMUNISM)….about WHO THESE ENTITIES ARE (IMPOSTERS) that are trying to steal ALL of our wealth and independence, WHAT METHODS (SECRETS, BRAINWASHING, LIES, DECEPTIONS TO COMMIT MANY FRAUDS), THEY ARE USING IS HOW they ARE accomplishing this and WHY they want to do this (COMPLETE COMMUNISM) ….FRAUDCLOSURE IS JUST A PART OF THEIR BIG EVIL PICTURE TO COMPLETELY CONTROL OUR MINDS..AND ALL OF US…IT IS ALL IN REALITY…FRAUD BEING COMMITTED BY IMPOSTERS TO ROB, CONTROL AND DESTROY ALL OF US….IT TRULY IS …..our enemies both FOREIGN and DOMESTIC who are engaging in FOREIGN ESPIONAGE FROM WITHIN. THIS IS BEING COMMITTED BY TRAITORS FROM WITHIN WHO ARE IMPOSTERS.

  47. @tnharry….THE TRUTH IS……..ALL of these comments ARE VERY RELEVANT to fraudclosure…… WHY these Fraudclosures are happening IS very complicated and IS being covered up. IT IS AKA FORECLOSUREGATE. This goes way beyond just fighting a fraudclosure. Fraudclosure is JUST ONE of the MANY SNEAKY METHODS to their madness these IMPOSTERS are using to rob us of everything and completely control the minds of the American people..

  48. 48 comments and only 3or 4 are on topic. Neil – you’ve jumped the shark

  49. Here is a link to the latest updates on their scam… http://electronzio.com/

  50. The reason they want another MANUFACTURED financial collapse and/or a war in the middle east..? To declare a Complete Communist takeover of America…and seize all of our remaining wealth. They want to declare martial law so they can seize our infrastructure and insert the microchip in US…THE MARTIAL PLAN IS IN THE OVER 900 EXECUTIVE ORDERS OBAMA HAS SIGNED..THE MICROCHIP IS IN PAGE 1000 OF OBAMACARE…IN THE SO CALLED MEDICAL DEVICE REGISTRY.

  51. We need to eliminate the FED middleman who ARE imposters.

  52. We also need OUR OWN CURRENCY ON RESERVE..U.S. BANK NOTES THAT WILL BE ISSUED VIA STATE BANKS…IN EVEN EXCHANGE FOR FEDERAL RESERVE NOTES…

  53. WE THE PEOPLE -V- THE FEDERAL RESERVE BANK..(who are a private bank). My last comment RE…AMERICA IS NOT BROKE…was referring to my comment at 9:48 a.m…about the BLOOMBERG NEWS REPORT.

  54. The below comment is PROOF AMERICA IS NOT BROKE and PROOF that AMERICA IS BEING ROBBED.

  55. Hey, it’s kind of FUN TO TALK LIKE THIS and then sometimes DO IT AGAIN and then get really soft and then START ALL OVER AGAIN YELLING and then talk real low again just so I can GET MY POINT ACROSS even though we all KNOW WHATS GOING already but the POINT IS WE ARE all just trying to UNDERSTAND this mess and figure out WHAT WE CAN DO ABOUT IT.

    GET IT?

    ok.

  56. I hear Class-action lawsuit against Wall Street, et al. Yes? No?

  57. The truth is, the FED is laundering INSOLVENT DEBT via the U.S. TREASURY DEPT…QE 3 allows the FED to buy back failed mortgages and hand U.S. TAXPAYERS that failed debt AGAIN..The FED is in turn, wiping out the biggest wealth creators in the world who are…WE THE PEOPLE.
    BLOOMBERG NEWS reported a few months ago the FED collects TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS per month in mortgage money from WE THE PEOPLE…..Bernanke said he uses OUR MONEY to buy TREASURIES WITH. THAT’S A SCAM…PAY US BACK YOU CROOKS..!

  58. Couldn’t agree more! : )

  59. Thank You Randy! The truth is, this is a very complicated mess by design, and we are all just trying to help each other.

  60. BTW..enraged… I sometimes do express my opinions in ALL CAPS if I feel there are important matters being MISSED that are of REAL URGENCY. So you may consider these ALL CAPS comments my way of ALERTING THE PEOPLE of the URGENCY…There are ALOT OF DISTRACTIONS FROM THE TRUTH OUT THERE….. However, if anyone wants to skip these, that certainly is their choice.

  61. I think Ivent’s comments are much appreciated at least to me they are. All caps or not.

  62. Enraged and E. Tolle…..CONGRATULATIONS….! No one has ever before used ridiculous excuses to tell me to shut up in such an intelligent way..! I am flattered…! It is usually the same old shoot the messenger tactics. My naming of WHO the real masterminds of this scam ARE, cannot be ignored because, they ARE the actual owners of this SCAM….
    If what I have to say was not useful to anyone, then I doubt what I have to say would bother you two enough to respond. However, nice try.

  63. @Ivent,

    Please consider the following:

    Everyone of your rants require from you a few engraving actions, always the same ones and they make the same exact demands on your brain every time and leave a more and more permanent impression on it.

    First, you have to think them, emotionally. Your brain registers them while your body slowly absorbs all that toxicity produced by the brain as you release all those fight-or-flight hormones. Then, you have to formulate them in words and sentences in order to put them on paper. Another part of your brain registers them, while producing more toxins. Then, you write them. A third part of your brain records them as you do and you poison yourself even more. Lastly, you read them back as you write and that is done in a fourth part of your brain. In other words, you are both brainwashing yourself into a negative, hopeless and desperate mode of thinking and you are, methodically and systematically, physically killing yourself. Think about the implications on your health and think how difficult you are making in on yourself to get out of that rut. You’ll notice that everyone on this site who has a nasty streak eventually admits to being seriously ill physically: One doesn’t go without the other.

    That’s what brainwashing is all about. Dangerous place to willfully put yourself into and it feeds on itself. The more ranting you do, the more ranting you want to do and the more negative news you want to read to feed all that negativity. While focusing on negativity and anger, your brain keeps producing more and more toxins and you get sicker and sicker physically, thus getting more and more hopeless.

    And you know what the terrible part about it is? No one is doing it to you but yourself! Not government, not banks, no one but yourself. Being angry is perfectly justified. Remaining in that kind of a rut makes no sense when anyone could snap out of it by thinking about what he/she is doing and going for a long jog to get rid of all those fight-or-flight toxins.

    And please, do us all a favor: can you drop the caps? I make a point of never ever reading anything in caps and I’m not the only one. In fact, if you read posts on this site, you’ll notice that more and more people are ignoring you and simply skipping over your name… That should tell you something.

  64. @ Ivent, if only I could opt out. In the olden days on the internet, most forums had ignore functions that would disable a commenter’s diatribe….not so with wordpress.

    The truth is, I don’t really have any issues with what you’re spewing per se, having discovered those world order truths long ago, you simply make it a lot more difficult to converse with people who are posting ideas and useful tips concerning foreclosure defense, which btw, the last time I looked was the reason Neil started this blog and why most of us are here.

    I have yet to read anything you’ve posted that would shed insight into how to circumvent the crimes being foisted on the court systems around the nation, instead, you simply bitch out loud. Over and Over. Time after time. But of course you’re right, I have no say over what you post and will simply have to scroll through the incessant rantings against the new world order that preoccupy your thoughts and attempt to intrude into mine.

    I have no doubt that your posts could prove valuable to those who are just awakening to the Bilderbergs and the CFR and so on…..it’s just too bad that many who are here to simply find out how they might save their home from a fraudulent foreclosure will go elsewhere due to the 9 to 1 posts railing against the macro, not the in-their-face micro-issues raveled around foreclosure theft. I have no doubt that the macro shoe will drop soon enough on all of us, but foiling the rat-bastards in individual efforts within the court system, or what’s left of it, is the order of the day on Living Lies.

    But Neil never elected me hall monitor, so of course you’re perfectly within your rights to post that the IMF is set to strike or what-have-you. Just don’t expect to continue to do so without some snideassed remarks coming from my corner of the blog. It’s the least I can do.

  65. Wall Street creates wealth for themselves and their investors both foreign and domestic..from BORROWING OUR WEALTH and OVERSELLING INVESTMENTS IN OUR SIGNATURES… and they give NOTHING OF VALUE back to the American people…just their INSOLVENT DEBTS…..Therefore, they are NOT the WEALTH CREATORS…they are WEALTH STEALERS…THEY ARE DEFRAUDERS..! WE THE PEOPLE who lend them the money at the ORIGINATION FRAUD and lend them OUR SIGNATURES (without our knowledge) to create wealth for THEMSELVES are the WEALTH CREATORS…we get NOTHING in return. They are all PUBLICY FUNDED INSTITUTIONS….WHO ARE PAID UPFRONT BY THE PEOPLE…SO WHY ARE WE STILL BAILING OUT BANKRUPT INSTITUTIONS WHO PLUNDERED OUR WEALTH..? We should have received some sort of return on OUR INVESTMENTS ….instead WE ARE BEING ROBBED INTO BANKRUPTCY BY BEING FORCED TO RE PAY BANKRUPT INSTITUTIONS FOR COMMITTING A QUADRILLION DOLLARS IN FRAUD WITH OUR WEALTH AND SIGNATURES..!

  66. E Tolle..I’m NOT going anywhere. However, YOU DO have a CHOICE…..YOU CAN OPT OUT OF READING MY COMMENTS…

  67. Short, sweet and… effective!

  68. Ivent, have you ever thought about getting your own blog?

    You can have all the caps that you want.

  69. WE THE PEOPLE are FED UP with bailing out the PUBLIC SECTOR. It is not only unfair and immoral that the PRIVATE SECTOR is constantly being FORCED to keep handing our hard earned wealth to BANKRUPT INSTITUTIONS , it is FASCISM and it will create COMPLETE COMMUNISM…!

  70. We should be printing our own currency….U.S. BANK NOTES…backed by our own wealth…. as the U.S. CONSTITUTION REQUIRES..and borrowing directly from the U.S. TREASURY…NO FED OR OTHER FOREIGN CONTROLLED INFRASTRUCTURE BANK MIDDLEMAN…! AMERICA IS NOT BROKE…AMERICAS WEALTH IS BEING HELD HOSTAGE BY THE WORLD BANKSTERS…!

  71. Part 2 of Neil Barofsky’s Mandelman’s podcast.

    http://s3.amazonaws.com/iehi-video-mli/mandelman/Neil_Barofsky_Podcast_Part_2.mp3

  72. The TRUTH IS…WHEN THE PRIVATE SECTOR IS GONE…SO IS FREEDOM & INDEPENDENCE ..& THE ENTIRE COUNTRY..! Then what you have is a FRAUDULENTLY INDUCED NATIONAL WELFARE STATE..and the microchipped debt slaves they always wanted.. COMPLETE GOVERNMENT CONTROL IS COMPLETE COMMUNISM…..!

  73. These criminals want to redistribute our stolen wealth and lend it to us through infrastructure banks…! Don’t borrow your own stolen wealth at interest America..! That is COMPLETE COMMUNISM…! MAKE THESE CROOKS PAY US BACK !

  74. @enraged….that’s because they destroyed the PRIVATE SECTOR….Fareed Zakaria on CNN says we need infrastructure banks…funded by hedge funds etc….! THE COMMIE CHINA BUSINESS MODEL…..! He said we need to be funded by the crooks who robbed US…..WITH OUR OWN STOLEN WEALTH….! PAY US BACK YOU CROOKS…..! FAREED SAID THEY ARE THE GOVERNMENT….! OH HELL NO! ….WE THE PEOPLE ARE THE GOVERNMENT..! Fareed needs to go back to Bilderbergs and tell the crooks WE AINT BUYING WHAT THEIR SELLING..WHICH IS MORE FRAUDULENTLY INDUCED DEBT…AND THE MICROCHIP..! BEWARE…..! RESOCIALIZATION OF OUR STOLEN WEALTH…..TO FIX INSOLVENT DEBT IS COMPLETE COMMUNISM…! WE NEED A CLEAN SLATE…SUE THE FED…WE NEED OUR OWN CURRENCY…ABOLISH THE FED…!

  75. Neil Barofsky on Mandelman Matters. We knew from his interviews by Matt Taibbi how bad it was. At least, we thought we did.

    Guys, it is worse!!!

    http://s3.amazonaws.com/iehi-video-mli/mandelman/NEIL_BAROFSKY_1.mp3

  76. Bottom Line…we need our own currency. We need to privatize our wealth.

  77. Unless the FED starts dropping bags of money on the PRIVATE SECTOR…there will be NO RECOVERY…

  78. CNN guest just said the PRIVATE SECTOR is in freefall. My take, the whole country is in freefall because the PRIVATE SECTOR fuels the entire economy. There will be hell to pay for wiping out the PRIVATE SECTOR.

  79. Part 2 of where the money went.

  80. For those who ask where the money went…

  81. The PUBLIC SECTOR hasn’t felt yet what the PRIVATE SECTOR has been feeling for a long time. Just wait…the financial pillage of WALL STREET is coming their way real soon. What goes around always comes around….

  82. These student debtors are a small cog in the wheel….they don’t pay the REAL BILLS in this country…like the mortgages, the property taxes and the utilities…just wait and see what happens when QE 3 bankrupts the PRIVATE SECTOR…and the cops, firemen, teachers, the utility workers and ALL OF THE PUBLIC SECTOR STOPS GETTING PAID BECAUSE THE POLITICIANS and BERNANKE BANKRUPTED THE PRIVATE SECTOR…!

  83. The GOVERNMENT CORP is slowly but surely taking ALL OF THE SMALL BUSINESS LIVELIHOODS, THE WEALTH and PROPERTY AWAY FROM THE PRIVATE SECTOR TO KEEP THE PUBLIC SECTOR GOING….NOT ONLY IS THAT IMMORAL…THAT CANNOT BE SUSTAINED..!

  84. In reality, the Government Corp has pitted the PRIVATE SECTOR against the PUBLIC SECTOR by the ONGOING BAILOUTS. That is going to cause a lot of friction in this country sooner or later. They can’t possibly believe that this country runs on PUBLIC SECTOR JOBS ALONE…The PRIVATE SECTOR FUELS THE PUBLIC SECTOR and, they ARE GOING TO RUN OUT OF FUEL VERY SOON…! The so called WEALTH CREATORS …THE TBTF ON WALL STREET… have created a QUADRILLION DOLLARS IN DERIVATIVES FRAUD DEBT WITH OUR ELECTRONIC SIGNATURES FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. The PRIVATE SECTOR is going to run out of FUMES…..AND THAT IS PRECISELY WHEN ALL HELL IS GOING TO BREAK LOSE IN AMERICA.

  85. carie, the reason that robo signing the serving of credit card default documents is such a big deal is that A, it allows the credit card company and their debt negotiators to negotiate in bad faith because they know they can simply get a robo signing process server to fake serve a service. The easier a service is to achieve, the less likely the debt collector will negotiate in good faith.

    Too properly fight back, the process server and the legal firm could be sued for MAIL FRAUD. The back up mail service of a legal document can only happen once the actual service is made and sworn to under penalty of perjury as having been successfully achieved.

    Legal Service MUST happen BEFORE the back up service can be mailed. Therefore a fraudulent legal service means the mailed service is mail fraud. I think I am the first person to think of the two points made above, which does not say much for the lawyers who are supposed to represent us.

  86. No reductions, just waive all penalties, fees and interest rate charges from now on.

  87. Aggressive foreclosures are simply aggressive debt collection.
    By law (FDCPA) a debt collector of unsecured debt cannot seize property.
    We are dealing with unsecured debt masquerading as a secured mortgage.
    Our government lied about 9/11 and is lying about mortgages/debt.

    Here is a comment (below) from someone who paid off a debt collector and 3 years later another company is trying to collect on the same debt…this is happening with these fake mortgages, also—because they are simply like CREDIT CARD DEBT—being “collected” by debt collector/servicers…:

    “…I paid off my personal debt to them back in 2007 and received a letter stating paid in full. Now I have another company trying to collect the same debt that was paid off to Zwicker and Associates (debt collector) 3 years ago. When I called Zwicker they told me they do not have me on file. This is unbelievable that the debt collector would not help and told me to call my credit card company. Why would I call them when I clearly paid Zwicker in FULL and have a letter of confirmation from ZWICKER stating it was paid in full?!?!”

  88. @Niedermeyer,

    Nothing happens in a vacuum. We’ve been taught generation upon generation never to question motives. Most people don’t know what questions to ask. So, they don’t.

    There is always one reason behind every decision, be it individual or governmental: money. Find who’s bound to make the most and you’ll have your motive.

  89. Niedermeyer,

    People don’t realize that medical students are much more valuable in the sense that they are the legal pushers for the most profitable business there is (chemistry) and that same business is at the root of absolute control and power over populations. Medical staff has the power to give, prevent or take life by legally dispensing drugs that can alter genes and DNA and can alter body and brain functions. And it is absolutely legal.

    Chemistry controls every single aspect of our lives. Food, water, procreation, health, chemistry is involved in everything we touch and do. Monsanto knows it. Pharma knows it. Oil industry knows it. Why do you think so many states and counties forbid people from growing fruits and veggies in their own gardens? Medical staff are the perfect conduit for all three and has access to an unlimited supply of guinea pigs.

    Engineering, on the other hand, works for people. Engineers design bridges, roadways and buildings. They are at the basis of every invention that has allowed our life to be easier: eyeglasses and hearing aids, work tools, prosthesis, cars, planes, boats, etc. Engineering is a the root of solar and wind energy. Chemistry alters. Engineering creates. Biiiiiig difference in the intent and purpose.

  90. There needs to be a DEBT JUBILEE for ALL…ALL of this debt created by this debt cartel can NEVER be repaid. These IMPOSTERS…created these financial weapons of mass destruction called…..DERIVATIVES..to rob and enslave US with their MICROCHIP to THEIR QUADRILLION DOLLAR DERIVATIVES DEBT FRAUD..WE THE PEOPLE NEVER SIGNED OR AGREED TO THEIR PREDATORY CONTRACTS…

  91. Neal ,

    Two points ,,

    First.. Why Medical students? Why not Engineers?

    Second.. Why bother ,, these loans aren’t indexed to inflation ,,they’re fixed rate right or if they’re variable they have caps like 6% max increase in a year or some such? We’ve had 13% inflation in the last 12 months and Ben Bernanke just announced that he is trying to go parabolic with the money supply ,,, forget 13% a year , we’re talking 13% an hour.

    The dollar amounts JUST DON’T MATTER … wait out the inevitable and pay off any loan with a few candy bars and a box of powdered milk.

  92. Duh!

    Below the Fold: Where did the $26 Billion go?
    Posted: 09/14/2012 10:45 am

    You may remember some hubbub back in February about some talks involving a $26 billion settlement that was supposed to provide relief to nearly two million American homeowners. Many homeowner activists, bloggers, and homeowners themselves saw the settlement is nothing more than another giveaway to placate the banks and servicers. It’s starting to look as though they were right.

    Despite the warnings, outrage, and in some cases pleading, some of the biggest voices in the consumer advocacy community touted the settlement as a positive thing for homeowners.

    AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka said:

    The banks broke the law by railroading homeowners through the foreclosure process. Today’s settlement provides compensation for foreclosure victims without requiring individuals to waive their legal claims. While banks must be made to pay more to help homeowners, the settlement includes needed principal write-downs so homeowners can stay in their homes.

    Alys Cohen of the National Consumer Law Center said it would move the ball forward and that it was a game changer. Iowa Attorney General Tom Miller, who headed up the whole process, said “This agreement is the only way we’re going to get to substantial principal reduction.”

    NAACP President and CEO Benjamin Todd Jealous said:

    This monumental settlement is a strong step towards assisting the millions of current and former homeowners that were exploited, discriminated against and taken advantage of by major mortgage servicing banks. The principal reductions, refinancing and other relief will provide desperately needed relief.

    Former White House Advisor, Van Jones, now running “Rebuild the Dream” and never one to miss an opportunity to pipe up about something somewhere said:

    That is small comfort, perhaps, but it was hard won. So we should honor the hard work of New York State Attorney General Eric Schneiderman, California Attorney General Kamala Harris and others, including many grassroots progressive organizations like New Bottom Line. They fought courageously to prevent a total sweetheart deal for the banks. This outcome is the result of determined activism, and without this heroic effort, the deal would have been drastically worse.

    All pretty big names with pretty big voices congratulating themselves and their colleagues over a job well done, but looking at what’s actually been accomplished in the last six months as a result of the settlement there’s been very little follow-through from anyone who previously saw this as a victory.

    The Social Science Research Network released a study last month that was collaborative effort of the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago, the government’s Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC), Ohio State University, Columbia Business School, and the University of Chicago measure the impact of HAMP – the government’s anti-foreclosure program.

    According to the report nearly 800,000 homeowners could have avoided foreclosure had the banks done a better job at modifying loans. ProPublica’s Paul Kiel put together a fairly in-depth article on the findings of the report, in which he writes:

    Unfortunately for homeowners, most mortgages are handled by banks that haven’t been properly staffed and thus have modified far fewer loans. If these worse-performing banks had simply modified loans at the same pace as their better performing peers, then HAMP would have produced about 800,000 more modifications. Instead of about 1.2 million modifications by the end of this year, HAMP would have resulted in about 2 million.

    It’s a bit sympathetic to the bank’s claims that they were understaffed and overworked, but still a worthwhile read.

    So what about the $26 billion? In some cases, the banks are dragging their heels. The Office of Mortgage Settlement Oversight released its first report on August 29 – just six months later. According to the report, Bank of America, the bank responsible for the biggest portion of the agreement had yet to modify a single mortgage.

    The Los Angeles Times reported

    The report showed that Bank of America Corp. faltered in one key area of the settlement, completing no modifications of first mortgages from March 1 to June 30, the period covered in the first status report released by the Office of Mortgage Settlement Oversight.

    The other four banks covered by the settlement — JPMorgan Chase & Co., Wells Fargo & Co., Citigroup Inc. and Ally Financial Inc. — reported that they had completed 7,093 modifications of first-lien mortgages worth a total of $749 million. JPMorgan Chase completed the most such modifications with $367 million.

    As an added twist, according to Jim Gallagher of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, banks could be completely sidestepping the foreclosure settlement with short sales:

    That raises the question: Would the banks have forgiven that debt even without the settlement? Have banks found a nifty way to reduce the amount $25 billion they agreed to pay to settle the suit over their foreclosure practices?

    The figures are similar across the nation. At least 60 percent of the money is supposed to go to homeowner relief. But the bulk of that is going for short sales.

    More egregiously, the settlement money that was to be used to provide relief for homeowners is instead being used by some state officials to fill budget holes, top off coffer, and offset taxes.

    New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, the latest to jump on the “we have free money and screw homeowners” band wagon, wanted to divert $75 million earmarked for New Jersey homeowners to offset tax breaks for the state’s wealthiest residents, according to NJ.com.

    In Texas, $125 million went straight to the general fund. Missouri will use its $40 million to soften cuts to higher education. Indiana is spending more than half its allotment to pay energy bills for low-income families, while Virginia will use most of its $67 million to help with revenue. Georgia plans use its $99 million to lure companies to the state.

    So, as it happens, it looks like the settlement wasn’t such a great idea or the big first step everyone claimed it would be. The banks and servicers still get to do what they want; they get to do it how they want; and individual states get to use the money however they want as long as it’s not to help struggling homeowners for whom the money was intended for in the first place.

    Oddly enough, everyone who was so quick to applaud the settlement and take the opportunity to grandstand as a homeowner advocate six months ago, has become conspicuously quiet when it comes to follow through. An unfortunate recurring theme.

  93. The fact that most loans have been securitized means that they have made money on top of money that the debtor is paying them. Unjust enrichment which I believe is illegal. At the end of this month I am going to be filing against my School Loan to force them to open the books on my account to find out how much Sallie Mae, Xpress Loan Servicing, AES, et al., have made. Also question the legitimacy of the assignments.

    And yes I agree, the above case may not work for others. But the fact still remains that they are dischargeable.

  94. What is the theory that securitization makes them dischargeable? And Randy, you are correct that they are in fact dischargeable, but the elements of a successful action to discharge them makes it practically impossible. Citing a FDCPA case doesn’t necessarily mean that the real life chances of discharge are workable for most people.

  95. Actually, student loans CAN be discharged in bankruptcy.

    Bankruptcy Law Easterling v. Collecto, Inc., No. 11-3209
    In a bankrupt student loan debtor’s action against a debt collector, on behalf of herself and 181 other individuals who had received collection letters concerning student loan debts, district court’s dismissal of the complaint is reversed and remanded, as the collection letter’s statement that plaintiff’s student loan debt was “ineligible for bankruptcy discharge” was false on its face. Further, not only is the letter’s representation literally false, it is also fundamentally misleading in that it suggests that the debtor has no possible means of discharging her student loans in bankruptcy, and the letter’s capacity to discourage debtors from fully availing themselves of their legal rights renders its misrepresentation exactly the kind of “abusive debt collection practice” that the FDCPA was designed to target.

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