Getting Lost in the Weeds: Following the Money Trail

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“What they did was take money from their left pocket and put it into their right pocket taking out $10 each time and putting that $10 into their back pocket.  Then they reported that $10 to the SEC and the shareholders calling it trading profits or a fee.  They’re calling this movement from left pocket to right pocket ‘expansion of the money supply’.  And of course, if I start with $100 in my left pocket and take out $10 and don’t record it in the transfer then instead of the amount of money in my left pocket going down to $90 it remains at $100 and next time I move money from my left pocket to my right pocket if still don’t report the $10 I take out rather than going down to $80 the total in my left pocket still remains at $100”  Neil F Garfield

“If you look back over the past 200 years at any of the bank failures the world has had, we always say, ‘We never believed they would do something like this!’  but they do and they do it for one simple answer, greed.”  Neil F Garfield

Editor’s Comment:  

Dear Reader,
I’ve called them pretender lenders because that’s what they are.  The actual financial transaction did not take place the way you think it did.  The documents would have us believe otherwise, but the money shows where the real deal was.  I understand your concern but I am concerned that you might be missing the whole point and conveying incorrect information to others.
Your research is fabulous in following the relationships between the pretender lenders.  Your research does not pretend to cover the entire transaction, just the documentation and the apparent relationships.  All of that is invaluable.
The essential point that I am hoping you will consider is that the origination of the loan was a false origination.  The note, the mortgage, the HUD statement and all documents after the loan received referred to a financial transaction that never occurred.  They are void.
The financial transaction occurred with a different party under different terms than those expressed in the note and mortgage and disclosure docs given to the borrower at the time of closing.  Your point of confusion is easy to understand since the banks have gone to great lengths, including fabricating, forging, and robosigning fraudulent documents each reciting facts relating to a financial transaction (where MONEY exchanges hands).  “For value received” is a fraudulent statement.  No payment was ever made and the closing instructions to the escrow agent came from a complete stranger to the transaction with instructions to refund any excess to that stranger.  Without any language that would connect the stranger to the pretender lender at the origination of the loan.  If there was an actual connection between the financial transaction which was undocumented and the documents that refer to a financial transaction that never happened both the paperwork and the wire instructions would each refer to the other and be disclosed to the borrower.
For example, on the wire instructions, if the funding of the loan was intended to fulfill the so called “commitment” of the loan originator posing as the lender and therefore as the payee on the note, then it is standard practice to include in the wire transfer the words “for benefit of ‘xyz’ company”.  If the documents were meant to incorporate the financial transaction where money exchanged hands they would have referred to the parties who were the source of funds and the terms under which those funds were to be repaid as set forth in the prospectus and pooling and servicing agreement.
In neither the money chain (wire transfer instructions) nor the document chain (note, mortgage, HUD 1 settlement and disclosure documents) were any representations or disclosures made that even hinted at the presence or possibility of the other chain.
You might be tempted to presume that the wire transfer related to the borrower’s execution of loan documents in favor of the source of funding in the wire transfer.  But taken on its face, no such connection is made nor was one intended.  It was this split between the money trail and the document trail that enabled the banks to create a long term gap during which they could trade “ownership” of the loan before making any attempt to deliver the loan to the investors who had advanced the funds.  By that time, the loan was in default and past the cutoff date.  All of these trades were false trades based on false premises and the promise of false documents as we found out when one of the “trades” turned out to be foreclosure.
While the borrower believed that his “lender” was moving around from the originator to a servicer and then a new servicer and then a new trustee etc. the actual ownership of the obligation came from an undifferentiated commingled escrow account that was created in spite of provisions to the contrary in the prospectus and PSA delivered to the investor.  Hence the banks were able to report that they had successfully obtained insurance and had further covered the investment with credit default swaps and other hedge products, but they failed to reveal that the beneficiaries of the payout were the banks themselves and not the investors.  This is also what enabled the banks to claim losses from mortgage defaults requiring a bailout from the federal government even though the banks had neither funded nor purchased any mortgage.
In order to get away with this, the investment banks needed to have a provision inserted in all of the resale agreements in which the loan was sold multiple times, that upon payment of the insurance or credit default swap the payor waived their right to pursue the borrower on any of the loans (waiver of subrogation).  Had that provision not been inserted, AIG, the federal government and counter parties in credit default swaps would have swarmed over the transactions and determined for themselves that the original note and mortgage were faked.
Regards,
Neil

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90 Responses

  1. […] play this constant game all supposedly in the name of increasing the money supply. Attorney Neil Garfield describes the process as the bank starting out with $100 in the left pocket and taking $10 out to […]

  2. […] play this constant game all supposedly in the name of increasing the money supply. Attorney Neil Garfield describes the process as the bank starting out with $100 in the left pocket and taking $10 out to […]

  3. @ carie… found some of it…. 11/15/2011 post on here “Resources on Fannie Mae Trusts”. Also found another good FHFA lawsuit, again, with the rescind word in it: Alrighty then!!

    http:// fhfa.gov/webfiles/22586/FHFA%20v%20BoA20%Other.pdf

    This really is incredible.

  4. from Mccandless in June and thanks for the update, McC.

    Herrera v. Federal National Mortgage Association Docket
    Cal.App. 4th Dist., Div. 2 (E052943) 5/17/12 TRUSTEE’S SALES:

    “MERS, as nominee beneficiary, has the power to assign its interest under a deed of trust.”
    jg: What interest would that be? Nominal placeholder? Ok. If they have any other “power”, pray tell, your honor, from whence is it derived? The power to assign anything else here, i.e., the beneficial interest, must be being presumed, because there is no evidence of such power. Ever. And “MERS” doesn’t do assgts, anyway. The assignees do them.

    “Even assuming plaintiffs can allege specific facts showing that MERS’ assignment of the deed of trust was void, a plaintiff in a suit for wrongful foreclosure is required to demonstrate the alleged
    imperfection in the foreclosure process was prejudicial to the plaintiff’s interests.”

    jg: try not to get sick! But your honor, do you have reason to believe
    the debt was actually retired by the foreclosure? I’ll tell you this, your honor, if I get behind on my car payments, YOU are not getting my car. I would call that prejudicial to my interests.

    “Not only did plaintiffs fail to show prejudice, but if MERS lacked the authority to assign the deed of trust, the true victim would not be the plaintiffs, who were admittedly in default, but the lender whose deed of trust was improperly assigned.”

    jg: You are so right about part of that, your honor. The person who laid out the dough for the loan IS probably getting the shaft. But YOU still aren’t getting my car. Seriously, Californians need to take a look at that ‘prejudice’ stuff the court cites(Or, learn to articulate prejudice.) It is itself highly and patently prejudicial. And absurd imo. This is kangaroo court, also imo.

    “Finally, Civil Code Section 2932.5**, requiring recordation of an assignment of a mortgage, applies only to mortgages that
    give a power of sale to the creditor, not to deeds of trust which grant a power of sale to the trustee.”

    jg: to tell the truth, I’m aware of no “mortgage” which gives a creditor the power of sale. Never seen such a document, and if there aren’t any, then clearly there is misinterpretation of this statute. I think it’s still misconstrued, albeit not so clearly if such a doc exists.

    CA CCS 2932.5:
    Where a power to sell real property is given to a mortgagee, or other encumbrancer, in an instrument intended to secure the payment of money, the power is part of the security and vests in any person who by assignment becomes entitled to payment of the money secured by the instrument. The power of sale may be exercised by the assignee if the assignment is duly acknowledged and recorded.

  5. Oh, I see what you’re saying—no he didn’t prove anything…I asked for a ledger and balance sheet showing what had happened to my money after I sent it to servicer—he totally ignored the question.
    I would love to sue servicer for all the money back plus damages that I gave them under “false pretenses”…RICO, or whatever.

  6. @carie – in my LAY opinion, yes, it’s hearsay. First of all, saying who is the owner or holder of these notes (esp today) is a legal conclusion(because the law is very specific on who and how one is a holder), not a fact in evidence. Someone told you so and so owns your paper: it’s hearsay, I mean, he didn’t prove it, right?

  7. @jg

    Also—you said: “…hearsay of the servicer, right?”

    i actually have a signed doc from him saying that…is that hearsay?

  8. Thanks, jg—“illegitimate” is the understatement of the century!! The onion layers get progressively stinkier.
    I will be discussing it with my tax guy…

  9. @Marth: “Well, yes, he WAS paying money… until not so very long ago.” ??? He? your husband? tax bills were in whose names? his, yours, or both??

  10. […] after the loan received referred to a financial transaction that never occurred.  They are void. Read more… Posted in Banks, MERS, News Around The Country, States « Oregon Supreme Court: Only the […]

  11. @carie – this isn’t really my thing, but since you were told some phantom sec’n trust (or was it deutsche) was foreclosing (and the source of that ‘info’ was the hearsay of the servicer, right?), it is ODD to say the least that the 1099 issued from the servicer. Damn irksome that those guys just do and say whatever the h they want. I thought the irs was not enforcing those 1099’s, in my opinion a paltry pittance to ‘balance’ the fact that they aren’t taxing investors for preferentially treated dollars. Something like that. If you don’t want to take this lying down, you might broach the irs, but then you may be on their radar, as well, and maybe you’d rather not be. There has just GOT to be someone who gives a hoot (not the word I’m thinking) about this kind of stuff.
    That 1099 imo is illegitimate or there’s a bunch of stuff we don’t know going on, but what could explain how it was allegedly a trust foreclosing and a servicer issuing a 1099? The stench is on everything, I guess.
    I’m not sure that l099 is appropriate even were it issued by the right party.
    That’s the first thing you might find out.

  12. And we did have a UD served…and I fought it for a while, but we ended up leaving before the sheriff “escort”…

  13. @Martha

    My 1099-A tax form that was sent to me says;
    “Acquisition or Abandonment of Secured Property”…and where it says “lender”—there is the name of the servicer!!!

  14. Carie,

    I think that there are only a few ways to report property aquired or losses/ by a bank/entity via whatever.

    I am curious though as what happens in a cash for keys? I think they just have you quit claim it to a “trustee” but never state the actual name on the quit claim.

    1. Is a short sale, and they report the loss, and it on the face shows you willingly sold the property to someone.

    2. You are judicially evicted, (or it gets to this point via a non-jud sale, and then court UD fight) and the hired posse, supervised by sheriffs, takes your stuff and tosses it on the lawn.

    3. you vacate willingly, with no judicial orders, and that they call property abandonment.

    If you willingly walk away and vacate, they take the position it was your choice, (though we of course know it was not really.)
    and hey its just sitting there vacant, lets take it!

    Its not the foreclosures that is causing the issue, or the defaults. They are just the scapegoat. As for housing, its the STRAWMAN homes they sold to non-existant persons, or via stolen names like mine.

    Its the entire system, housing is miniscule.
    and they chose to spend probably over the value of the NEW house, litigating, rather then even offer me a just fraction of the actual money loss I spent on this house in improvements and payments sent to a servicer, for switched loans, and they knew they had forged my name, and switched the loans, and conveyed me the property AFTER I actually signed a different DOT.

    I could understand the hesitation to deal, on an ordinary “default” as they call it, but they knew this was major fraud they did to me, with the switched loans, and all and that to me is just wasteful spending and bankers greed.

  15. @jg
    “…the ho’s reason for rescinding…”

    funny.

  16. http://www.scribd.com/doc/80157164/Rescission-may-be-Permissible-in-NV-6-Year-SOL
    This is part of a case – sorry it’s all I had of it in my files. It discusses the st of limitations for TILA claims and rescission, and when it is tolled. It also discusses the mutual mistake rule. For the 6 yr st of limitation in NV, the court relied on NV’s six yr time limit to rescind a contract. This (six yeas) may be at odds with TILA, unfortunately. I don’t remember which rules, if I ever knew. But, it’s still informative for it’s recitation of tolling. Remember, other courts have ruled ‘tender’ is not the first consequence of rescission (also at scribd) , that the lender must do certain things first, that those things are not optional, and we know the ‘lender’ will not do those things, which I believe includes releasing the lien and returning anything of value received from the homeowner, and there I’m thinking funds to then pay an att who knows s from shortcakes about rescission. If I’m right and the things the lender must do first are not done, where does that leave the homeowner? With a suit to compel performance of those things pursuant to rescission? Could a court if faced with such a performance suit from the homeowner force the homeowner to prove she could then tender? I ask because IF I got this right, that seems to be the only potential impediment to compelling performance by the lender pursuant to TILA.** If the lien must be released, which is the attachment to the property, what then is to stop a homeowner from selling the property (in the absence of a lender’s lis pendens) free of the lien, retire what one can if one wants of the debt obligation, and then going to the park? (Courts may frown on this, but it might be done in the absence of a lis pendens by the lender after they have released the lien as it’s my lay understanding they are compelled to do). But then, I think, it’s actually the debt obligation which has been rescinded, not just the collateral instrument, so???
    **TILA seems to demand strict compliance in regard to performance by the ‘lender’, and in that regard, it may be “one for the homeowner”.
    Current “lenders” like to say they had nothing to do with the ho’s
    reason for rescinding. That’s a reason I have tried to point out that
    these larger entities – remember “bg’s” from yesterday? – were the guys who underwrote these loans and approved them. If there were hyjinx, their hands are not clean, tho the guy claiming now might now be the guy who underwrote and approved the loan. Plus, tho I can’t find what I need to support this this minute, it’s my understanding any allegation one can make against the named payee, one may make against the current party of interest in one’s loan. Otherwise, TILA is profoundly toothless: sell the loan, no one has any responsibility for the orig actor’s acts and omissions and the borrower would have no recourse, and therein may come into play who the lender was at closing, ala Mr. G. The provisions of the UCC and “without recourse” may ultimately come into play here, also. If they conflict with TILA, what rules the day? I dunno.

  17. …the banks were the investors to default debt/collection rights, they were the ones that purchased the collection rights from the GSEs. Prospectus may not outline that the “loans” were first sold to an affiliate of the security underwriter (some do), but is clear by the conversion of the so-called loans to certificates in a trust, that they are sold to the security underwriters. These security underwriters, actually their parent corp., were the “investors.” The subprime lending corporations (now all gone) worked for these “investment/commercial” banks.

  18. Right on, Martha.
    IndyMac/OneWest servicer/debt collector said we “abandoned”.
    We didn’t. I asked them who owns the alleged loan—they lied and said “your loan was securitized, and you don’t have the right to pay the investor—you have to pay us”—and then they kicked us out…we never abandoned.

  19. Per @guests question

    Well, yes, he WAS paying money… until not so very long ago. and taxes are current I believe, as a payment was made a few months ago, but the second install might be due for the year.

    and,

    KC says:
    I have never recommended anyone pay on a mortgage (as someone has suggested here) where fraudulent enducement was perpatraited. Use your mortgage payment money and hire an Attorney.

    *************She is talking about me, above no doubt.
    KC seems to imply that if one is not taking that “former chunk of nickels” that used to go to the “servicer” then it should/MUST be spent giving it to an attorney, even if the attorney won’t be able to do ANYTHING!.

    That you must give it to the system somehow, but in my OLD HOUSE situation I fail to see how now giving it to an attorney” would do anything?

    As what would they be able do? * this is only in regards to the OLD house now.

    How could they even do anything?

    Nothing will give us clear title, as it’s impossible that’s very apparent by the forgeries. and missing grant deed.
    Now he can’t even do a mod, and hope to ever get clear title, I mean that’s the goal right, to eventually, even thirty years later- pay off the loans and own your home, maybe pass something on to the kids?

    The “payments” we were told (like a lot of you) to “temporarily stop-or so we thought it would be only temporary, ” And the attorney, who he had known forever…said he would then ask for a mod, and get it 100% for sure. No Problem he said!

    Then I found out we never got title, and that that attorney had known all along about this, as he was involved with the house in the 1986-1991 probate.

    so it was over… this was why they refused my rescission.

    No attorney can make a bad title good right? for the OLD HOUSE I fail to see how paying any attorney will help this situation.
    What could they even do? We are just stuck and now at the mercy of whomever.

    This above, is ALL in regards to the OLD HOUSE case of total defect/bad title/ tear-down structure and for most other typical “foreclosure” cases- YES, YES! YES-an attorney could be just what you need, and a consult is good if you don’t even know the facts yet I would guess, but I already know we have no title on the OLD HOUSE.

    I too, recommend everyone to get an attorney, GET AN ATTORNEY!

    Even starting with Neil’s services is a very great start, and an attorney is best!
    PRO SE is not what anyone wants to do, trust me on this.
    Do not even think about it!

    Please do not do attempt it, GET AN ATTORNEY! even for a year or so.
    You do not want to be PRO SE in a court, and I only continue as I don’t see any other option and am exhausted of trying for find a TORT lawyer.

    That is the very best advice I could give, and I am VERY EXPERIENCED in this, and you do not want to attempt this, it is not a nice experience. Do not even think you could do it. CALL AN ATTORNEY! try! and keep trying!

    Do not DEFAULT if you have no clear-super-fraud in your loans, and you want the house, and can pay. If its not fraud, you need to pay your loan!
    If you do default, you better be detached from the house, and feel like you already lost it, as you probably will.

    If they offer you 30-50K TAKE THE MONEY and VACATE! 50K can give you a fresh start!

    Besides, everyone moves every few years anyway right? It’s just a house.

    and if you cannot pay, just be ready to take any mod they offer you, if its feasible., and or move out and move on with your life,
    and BK might be a good option, and even I have not entirely thought HE should not do it, but unless his new business improves, then HE says he won’t do it. He refuses unless he gets more work come in, and then he probably would do it to get a fresh start if it seems like he could.

    When I filed my NEW HOUSE lawsuit, I did not know what really had happened, just knew it something was very WRONG, so I had no choice but to start out this way (pro se). I had not yet even been interviewed by the FBI yet when I filed my suit.

    MODS on loans is probably a great idea for MOST of the people who come on this site, and maybe the MOD’s will start to get easier to deal with and become a feasible solution for everyone.

    Thats what the fed needs, is a one-stop “U.S. Home Loan Modification Servicer”
    just like the STUDENT LOAN SYSTEM, and the infrastructure is already there! They could use the system already built.

    income=mod, and transparency, and not a different servicer sending you a letter two years after your into the nightmare, and lost mod docs, and lies, refused payments and the fake hamp bs. (from what I hear is happening out there)

    I don’t think anyone goes into any of this looking to get a FREE HOUSE, just a fair deal, and some transparency, and not hidden lenders, switched loans, and MERS collusion, and that’s all I went into all this hoping for.

    I mean, it’s just unrealistic to think you can get a free house, and heck, I don’t know of anyone who ever thought that, and it’s just something the press likes to tag onto this mess, to make us all seem like were the ones that did all this, and are trying to game the system.

    But every BANKER or person like KC, keeps coming on here spouting something like
    “don’t think for second, that I will help you get a free house!”

    Why do they say this over and over? Who is really trying to get this false idea out there in the mainstream public, that “homeowners in default are are all crooks out for FREE HOUSES!”

    No one out there that I have met, or even read about, is intentionally defaulting, and saying “Hey I am doing this to SCREW YOU!” and I want a FREE HOUSE!

    No one is going into the “default nightmare” hoping for this! Its a lie!

    but then I found out what they actually did to me, on the NEW HOUSE and that it was horrific intentional fraud, with the escrow agent arrested, and now, here it is.

    I have always wanted an attorney, and wish someone would take the NEW HOUSE case, it’s a pretty simple case really. It’s obvious BREACH, but I have gone to one after another, and all they talk about is MOD-BK, stuff. And this is pure tort on the NEW HOUSE.

    All I said to the last attorney i spoke to (in case you know about this,KC) and I admit this, was that, (when I tried to get, JULIE RIDELY, to take it in March,) I admit that I said that I HAD found out we did not OWN the OLD HOUSE, so yes, KC “I said something to an attorney, about the defective title”

    but did not ask her to even deal with that OLD HOUSE issue at ALL.

    I refuse to initiate litigation on the OLD HOUSE, as there is NOT a point! It won’t be of any reason, as the owners names were forged, and I have no plan…
    I do not even want to deal with it. I did not do this, and it is what it is.

    And no one is coming up with any idea of how to deal with it, and or any feasible solution or offers of how to help, ( because I am not going to SUE)
    and just abandoning the OLD HOUSE property, that was KC’s “Solution” is opening me up to be sued!
    as if you vacate, this is what it is, abandonment..is this not right? That exposes me to ungodly liability!

    I would rather be offered a sum to willingly sign over my “possible rights,” and along with it, the liability, but have not heard any offer of such.

    If you Vacate it is ABANDONMENT right? Is is not?
    It seems like its exactly the same to me. It has to be the same legally.

    so squatters can move in and your then liable?
    Oh that’s a very bad idea it seems, and I could even be held liable by the owners, for not taking care of it, as it was in my possession, or worse a kid could fall in the pool, and drown and wow, way too much liability to “abandon” it.

    That scares me more then anything, getting sued for something that could happen, with that UNFENCED pool, or getting sued for what squatters could do!

    A kid could drown and you ask me to “abandon” an unfenced pool property, and expose me that sort of liability? wow.

  20. mass res – what you said about prop taxes is mostly true. Unpaid prop taxes result in a prop tax lien which must be paid at the time of f/c
    to the best of my memory. The county doesn’t “own” the property by way of unpaid taxes, but such a lien does have a priority and can’t be ignored when f/c’ing. Counties must be vigilant in noticing tax liens. If overdue taxes aren’t noticed by way of a tax lien, the prop taxes overdue aren’t Noticed, and have no priority, of course. It seems to me, like an IRS tax lien which also has priority, the lien of the county
    should give pause to the f/c’er because it will have to actually part with some dollars: no “credit bid” for irs and county tax liens. The deal with the IRS appears a little more complicated in that something must be done by the IRS, who as I recall has four mos to assert its priority.
    But don’t take my word for it because it’s been too long since I looked at IRS lien ‘stuff’. Look at the IRS rules on priority. If you owe the IRS, you might actually want to work with them to see that foreclosure
    86’s your tax lien. (And here I’m thinking competent tax attorney and maybe another who can advise you on deficiency judgments in the event of a judicial foreclosure which doesn’t pay the -alleged – note debt or maybe the tax att will understand that law, also.) Whodda thunk? In doing so, you have to recognize the potential that a true owner of your loan if he were going to get any proceeds in the deal at all is going to have that amt reduced by your tax lien. Still, it isn’t your fault you aren’t able to even try to cut a deal with the true owner for any shortage if you were so inclined.

  21. I’ll work on finding some info on it, @mass resident—-ANONYMOUS has great insight…better than a lot of lawyers.

  22. @mass resident, there seems to be some confusion reguarding Anonymous. There are multiple parties using this screen name. Please be careful. You should follow Neils advice and find an Attorney. I have never recommended anyone pay on a mortgage (as someone has suggested here) where fraudulent enducement was perpatraited. Use your mortgage payment money and hire an Attorney. There are many Attorneys who will take your case and only charge a retainer in the amount of the filing fees and let you make payments. Please do not take advice from a party who is not making mortgage payments and not represented by councel. May your Blessings be Many!

  23. @carie…. could you repost it? I would def. appreciate it. I know I have read most of Anonymous’s posts.. should have printed them out. My bad. And I am still sticking with the theory that the Easter Bunny is the only one with a valid lien on the house. lol.. There is not one valid document recorded on our land since 2006.

    And check your state laws? In MASS, if the bank doesn’t pay the real estate taxes, and you don’t, at the end of the fiscal year (July) the town can put a lien on the house, and that TRUMPS any bank lien on it. Then the town owns it. That’s the only reason the banks are paying them. Besides the fact the house is already paid off, and technically it really is your money that is paying the taxes( from all the payments you sent in ).

  24. @ Martha: Q: have you been paying mortgage & taxes on the house you got no deed for?

  25. Sorry John …. I did not mean to repost that last line of her comment. QQ

  26. Clairification, YES, I had the letter in ’99 yes, but they said AFTER they MADE US SIGN THIS letter, they they had the GOT THE SISTERS grant Deed.

    They told us there was NO LONGER A MISSING DEED~

    AND I just recently figured out when I went to the recorders office, that the missing grant deed was not the SISTERS, as they said in ’99, but a different one, and I had NO REASON to check on this, as I BELIEVED THE ESCROW AGENT!

    THERE WAS NOT EVEN A CLOSE OF ESCROW. I was just given keys, and I was an average housewife, and was being lied to.

  27. AGAIN, How DENSE are you KC? Its two totally different issues!
    two different houses! What about this do you. or why you cannot understand?

    TWO DIFFERENT PROPERTIES!

    On the NEW house I have been litigating TWO YEARS, and have spoken to at least 10 lawyers! DO YOU GET THIS?

    ON the OLD HOUSE, I just FOUND OUT about the MISSING GRANT DEED, and I have NOT spoken to ANY lawyer about representing me, as I do NOT EVEN HAVE THE FACTS YET!

    THE FACTS ARE RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF YOU AND YOU REFUSE TO GET THIS!

    I have NOT asked a lawyer about the OLD HOUSE, I just am finding out the situation.

    and the letter they sent about the MISSING GRANT DEED, they told us after the letter, that OH, We finally got it! and they LIED.

    They told me it was the SISTERS Grant DEED that was missing, and then after they made us sign this, they said they had GOT IT, but it was a lie, it was the another GRANT DEED, not the SISTERS, that was the MISSING GRANT DEED.

    And the letter is right here Kingsley Amendment to Escrow2

    You are making yourself look bad by calling me a liar, as the facts are exactly as I say. I have nothing to gain by lying.
    But you obviously do/

  28. It would be grand if someone more familiar than a lot of us with the particular issues would cut and paste the most salient
    portions of massresident’s doc at his link. If I had such a thing, or even one with those portions highlighted, I, for one, would dissseminate it.

  29. posted by Martha @3:40pm under ” buying properties blog”………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
    And stop telling me to get a lawyer, as I tried, and none were smart enough, to figure this out. Just got turned down last week again, by someone who has already sued FA.

    You might as well tell me to grow a penis for all the good that will do

    …………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

    Sorry Neil … I have an issue with LIARS!

  30. @ 8:15pm Martha wrote below , …………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
    John, it’s difficult to explain as I have been on here two years, and there are two very DIFFERENT issues, (two houses) . really totally separate issues.

    I just started posting about the OLD house for the most part.

    The OLD house is what all the YAK is about today, and I went into ESCROW in 99 for it, but the title company in ’99 said in writing, btw, “your not going to get the GRANT DEED, and it’s missing, but do you still want to take out a loan?”

  31. @mass resident

    ANON won’t chime in here anymore because it’s been hijacked by a couple of certifiable nuts—among other reasons—but, you are definitely onto the truth.
    If you like, I can re-post info regarding what you are talking about.

  32. keyboard is sticking! sorry about the duplication, then again maybe KC need to hear it twice to understand I just found out about no title.

  33. I don’t have time all day today, Kathy to keep addressing your mis-conceptions and bought-and paid for false statements, as I don’t get paid to write on here like you.

    But you claim
    ” compare yourself to the people who bought a forclosed home and did not get legal title either. The DIFFERANCE is they did not get DISCLOSURE before signing and you did!”(sic)

    I beg to differ with you about that LIE, as is been in the news for years about the BAD FORECLOSURES, (ARE YOU JUST NOW ASSIGNED TO POLICE THIS BLOG?) and anyone that was STUPID enough to buy one of these was either only trying to make a quick buck, or taking advantage of someone else’s loss.

    No one who BUYS A FORECLOSURE, can viably claim they had NO DISCLOSURE about BAD FORECLOSURES!
    Am I right people?

    And you keep saying “bought a home and did not get title” except that this is false also, as if you DID NOT GET TITLE, then you did not buy it, and may have ATTEMPTED too, but this is the same as giving money for something and not getting it, as if you do not have title, ITS NOT YOURS plain and simple, living in it or not.

    And the TITLE COMPANY told me that HAD FINALLY GOT THE MISSING GD, (after the letter) but they were LYING, and the MISSING GD was not provided.

    If one does not have TITLE, any LOAN is not a MORTGAGE, Its just a loan.
    UNSECURED DEBT, I think its called?

    IN ORDER FOR IT TO BE A MORTGAGE, YOU NEED TO OWN THE PROPERTY!
    Am I right people?

    and they KNEW this when they made the recent loan, and they even went and changed the “loan” to have my name on it, and a different date, and attached a notary to it, all to FRAME ME IN FRAUD.
    And once again, all you want to say is PAY!PAY!PAY, and if I do not address this, you lash out and call me names, and say no one will take your case and I see why!
    but I keep saying I OFFERED FULL TENDER, and they refused!

    And very important here KC, please pay attention! As you keep getting mixed, up.

    I JUST DISCOVERED THIS ISSUE, about this property, I HAVE NOT ASKED A LAWYER TO REPRESENT ME IN THIS NEW ISSUE, I am just trying to figure out the situation, so why are you in full POODLE MODE on me? Why?
    I am just stating the facts of something I just discovered, and all you want to do is continue to infer I am a DEADBEAT? I did not DO THIS! This is not my doing, and your in full attack mode, and making inferences that are false. I just found out about NO TITLE,

    ( and the the title from the party that “OWNED it” Granting it TO ME is not in the county records, It’s absent, and it was done to defraud me in ’99.) And they simply had the county place my name on the TAX ROLE, and that is not clear title, its just a TAX ROLE.

    AND the LOANS they had on it———-I have a suspicion, have NOT BEEN PAID.
    (don’t know for sure KC, as I am just investigating this)
    Remember, I am just a housewife, not some friend of PROSECUTORS, or LOBBYIST.

    and this is an issue that is going to come up in the news more and more and more, and this is a BLOG about these issues that home-occupiers/owners face, and will face more and more, and not just the ones that bought bad foreclosures, but the ones like me, who tried to offer the FULL TENDER, and they refused, and then I FOUND OUT I never had legal title in the first place!

    Where do you get off claiming “I know why no one will represent you!”
    I have NOT TRIED TO GET A LAWYER ON THIS! Quit making statements that are misleading.

    Stick to the issue at hand, as this issue is about the OLD HOUSE, and I have not even had time to let this really sink in as to what happened, and what to do, as I just found out about it, and am still investigating this situation.

    I have not tried to SUE, I have not tried to get a lawyer, as I do not yet have all THE FACTS. and I am just tossing out the situation of NO TITLE in the COUNTY RECORDS ( or a forged one, as this is also happening) for analyzation on here by others, and all you want to say is DEADBEAT! PAY!

    filing a lawsuit is premature, if you do not yet have all the facts, and it will be a waste of time for everyone. How do I get an attorney, when i do not even know yet what happened? Are you for real?

    PAY!PAY!PAY! is all you say, but remember….I TRIED! and they refused, and that is not my doing! They flat out refused my rescission, as they did not want to lose the two years of interest, and fees, and they did not want to disclose to me (or let me find out, as I would have for sure) that the FIRST LOAN HAD NOT BEEN PAID OFF, and they knew this would come up as soon as I got a REAL TITLE REPORT.

    (NEVER GOT A FINAL IN ’99)

    And the thing is back in ’99 no one was talking about the RAMPANT TITLE FRAUD, and so that is going to start popping up more and more though.

    And you keep claiming YOUR TRYING TO HELP ME, but all I hear is PAY OR VACATE, and you keep acting like I even know what happened and I don’t yet.

    You cannot help me if I do not even know what occurred right? I am just finding out I have NO TITLE, so what “help” could you possibly give me? Quit claiming your trying to help, as I have not heard ANY OFFER OF HELP from you, AM I RIGHT?

    I certainly do not want to rush into something when I do not have the facts, and as no one will correspond with me, this is difficult. The “servicer” refused to correspond, as they say “it’s not your loan”
    It seems like you want me to make a rash decision, rush out and hand 10K to a lawyer, and say -Hey figure this out” but that is not his job is it, I need to get the facts first, and for starters, maybe I would like to get back ALL the money I paid the last ten years,
    Would this be out of line? But see, who would be responsible for that? I do not yet know all the facts remember! I just know that I will never get clear title, and this is why they refused my offer of tender, and they knew THE FIRST LOAN had not been PAID OFF!

    I will never have clear title, and that fact I do know,

    And if FIRST AMERICAN TITLE COMPANY had the title plants like they claim, why were they making loan after loan? DUH! They were setting me up in fraud.

    And again, I am not YET able to even comprehend fully what happened so I do not know what I should do, or not do.

    I just know that quiet title cannot likeley succeed, and how will spending $$$$$$$ on a lawyer for QT help, if I don’t think it would be successful.

    One reason, is as….. background, the “four owners” , the heirs-were in litigation between themselves for FIVE YEARS prior to ’99 over this property (again not disclosed to me) and one of the owners is the MISSING GRANT DEED, and I think- have a pretty good idea, based on the FIVE YEAR case files, that the other three owners had their names forged to GDS, and QT will not be viable against forgery

    AM I RIGHT? A simple question. If the other three owners had their names forged, and thought they were collecting a pittance of rent the past 10+ years, then maybe they will have an issue with a QT action? AM I RIGHT?

    If the legal owners disputed between each other (Family Love) in court with over 4 lawyers involved for FIVE YEARS, and it’s still not really resolved , with this now a new issue, (it was a multi-million probate) They spent FIVE YEARS of LEGAL FEES, fighting each other, and wow, that I cannot comprehend either!

    I do not see that even trying to get a lawyer is going to be viable, as the costs of this would be over double what the property is worth, as the house is a TEAR DOWN, remember, and if its worth only IN TRUE VALUE ..100K,. then spending a MILLION to litigate, is not a SOLUTION KC.
    Remember I have NOT EVEN TALKED TO AN ATTORNEY ABOUT THIS ISSUE!~

    So please KC, I would appreciate it if you read the facts that I write, and understand that the OLD HOUSE is a -pretty much- separate issue, then the NEW HOUSE, and that I have not even discovered all the FACTS. I just found this out a few months ago!

    All I know is that the ONE GRANT DEED is missing from the county records, and that it seems the earlier loans were never paid off, and of course no one wanted me to find this all out.

    I keep hearing “Go BK ” But Why? what will this do? It will not give me TITLE, right???

    BK will not give me title to another persons property if it does turn out the other names were forged, and they want to step BACK INTO COURT, and they very well probably will.
    I mean would not you, if you found your name was forged? and you…. thought the property manager was sending you rent checks all these past 10 years?
    Pretty sure this is what happened, as they own multiple millions of dollars of property with lots of rents coming in, and would not have known this happened.

    Would you just say, “Oh that’s OK, you can keep my property!” WOULD YOU?

    Also If the property has other loans (of the true owners) that were not paid, A BK will not affect them RIGHT?

    So, KC please quit trying to look like you “made an offer of HELP,” and that I turned it down, and am a fool for not taking your advice,
    or that I even tried to get a lawyer, as I have not even talked to one about this, and I need to find out what POINT a lawyer is, before I hire one right?
    I mean you do not sue someone unless you think you can get something AM I RIGHT?
    What would I sue for?
    Who would I sue?

    So why do you want me to get a lawyer so fast KC? Please expound on the reason to hire an attorney on this issue, because I don’t see why, not yet at least,
    What would I have an attorney do?
    What would I ask him/her to file suit over?
    Can you even answer these simple questions?

    I certainly am not prepared to spend even 100 K litigating on this property, and that is not unreasonable to expect this amount of attorney fees over what will be probably a knock-down-fight of multiple years,…over this once more between the four sibling owners.

    You have not offered any HELP, KC and its a rush to judgment to make it seem like I should make any decision so soon, when I do not have ALL the facts, and I just found all this out.

    as soon as all the owners have notice, of this, then maybe someone will come up with something we can all deal with. But I have to notify everyone first.

    Nobody has given me any viable solution, and simply telling me to VACATE, that’s a bit odd it seems, as why?
    How will that help anyone? It won’t give clear title to the “unsecured lender” so why rush into this.
    Maybe I should get all the facts before I do anything, and I do not even live there KC, family members that happens to need some assistance…lives there.
    Needy persons live there, so why should they be kicked out before all the facts are found out.

    The loans, though, that is also A SEPARATE ISSUE, so keep it separate, and has nothing to do with the issue of forged Grant DEEDS, and MISSING GRANT DEEDS, and the loans are….simply unsecured, if I do not own the property RIGHT?

    If the true owners want the property, I cannot defeat this I would think.
    It would cost more then the property is worth to even litigate…. so I have NOT filed suit, and I have not talked to a lawyer! Please stop with the propaganda and lies KC.
    I have NOT TRIED TO GET A LAWYER ON THIS ISSUE…… Okay?

    They “servicer” did refuse my offer of rescission, remember KC, so please quit pretending I did not offer payment, I did, and I offered this in writing, and they turned it down.
    I tried to PAY!PAY!PAY!

    I don’t have time all day today, Kathy to keep addressing your mis-conceptions and bought-and paid for false statements, as I don’t get paid to write on here like you.

    But you claim
    ” compare yourself to the people who bought a forclosed home and did not get legal title either. The DIFFERANCE is they did not get DISCLOSURE before signing and you did!”(sic)

    I beg to differ with you about that LIE, as is been in the news for years about the BAD FORECLOSURES, (ARE YOU JUST NOW ASSIGNED TO POLICE THIS BLOG?) and anyone that was STUPID enough to buy one of these was either only trying to make a quick buck, or taking advantage of someone else’s loss.

    No one who BUYS A FORECLOSURE, can viably claim they had NO DISCLOSURE about BAD FORECLOSURES!
    Am I right people?

    And you keep saying “bought a home and did not get title” except that this is false also, as if you DID NOT GET TITLE, then you did not buy it, and may have ATTEMPTED too, but this is the same as giving money for something and not getting it, as if you do not have title, ITS NOT YOURS plain and simple, living in it or not.

    And the TITLE COMPANY told me that HAD FINALLY GOT THE MISSING GD, (after the letter) but they were LYING, and the MISSING GD was not provided.

    If one does not have TITLE, any LOAN is not a MORTGAGE, Its just a loan.
    UNSECURED DEBT, I think its called?

    IN ORDER FOR IT TO BE A MORTGAGE, YOU NEED TO OWN THE PROPERTY!
    Am I right people?

    and they KNEW this when they made the recent loan, and they even went and changed the “loan” to have my name on it, and a different date, and attached a notary to it, all to FRAME ME IN FRAUD.
    And once again, all you want to say is PAY!PAY!PAY, and if I do not address this, you lash out and call me names, and say no one will take your case and I see why!
    but I keep saying I OFFERED FULL TENDER, and they refused!

    And very important here KC, please pay attention! As you keep getting mixed, up.

    I JUST DISCOVERED THIS ISSUE, about this property, I HAVE NOT ASKED A LAWYER TO REPRESENT ME IN THIS NEW ISSUE, I am just trying to figure out the situation, so why are you in full POODLE MODE on me? Why?
    I am just stating the facts of something I just discovered, and all you want to do is continue to infer I am a DEADBEAT? I did not DO THIS! This is not my doing, and your in full attack mode, and making inferences that are false. I just found out about NO TITLE,

    ( and the the title from the party that “OWNED it” Granting it TO ME is not in the county records, It’s absent, and it was done to defraud me in ’99.) And they simply had the county place my name on the TAX ROLE, and that is not clear title, its just a TAX ROLE.

    AND the LOANS they had on it———-I have a suspicion, have NOT BEEN PAID.
    (don’t know for sure KC, as I am just investigating this)
    Remember, I am just a housewife, not some friend of PROSECUTORS, or LOBBYIST.

    and this is an issue that is going to come up in the news more and more and more, and this is a BLOG about these issues that home-occupiers/owners face, and will face more and more, and not just the ones that bought bad foreclosures, but the ones like me, who tried to offer the FULL TENDER, and they refused, and then I FOUND OUT I never had legal title in the first place!

    Where do you get off claiming “I know why no one will represent you!”
    I have NOT TRIED TO GET A LAWYER ON THIS! Quit making statements that are misleading.

    Stick to the issue at hand, as this issue is about the OLD HOUSE, and I have not even had time to let this really sink in as to what happened, and what to do, as I just found out about it, and am still investigating this situation.

    I have not tried to SUE, I have not tried to get a lawyer, as I do not yet have all THE FACTS. and I am just tossing out the situation of NO TITLE in the COUNTY RECORDS ( or a forged one, as this is also happening) for analyzation on here by others, and all you want to say is DEADBEAT! PAY!

    filing a lawsuit is premature, if you do not yet have all the facts, and it will be a waste of time for everyone. How do I get an attorney, when i do not even know yet what happened? Are you for real?

    PAY!PAY!PAY! is all you say, but remember….I TRIED! and they refused, and that is not my doing! They flat out refused my rescission, as they did not want to lose the two years of interest, and fees, and they did not want to disclose to me (or let me find out, as I would have for sure) that the FIRST LOAN HAD NOT BEEN PAID OFF, and they knew this would come up as soon as I got a REAL TITLE REPORT.

    (NEVER GOT A FINAL IN ’99)

    And the thing is back in ’99 no one was talking about the RAMPANT TITLE FRAUD, and so that is going to start popping up more and more though.

    And you keep claiming YOUR TRYING TO HELP ME, but all I hear is PAY OR VACATE, and you keep acting like I even know what happened and I don’t yet.

    You cannot help me if I do not even know what occurred right? I am just finding out I have NO TITLE, so what “help” could you possibly give me? Quit claiming your trying to help, as I have not heard ANY OFFER OF HELP from you, AM I RIGHT?

    I certainly do not want to rush into something when I do not have the facts, and as no one will correspond with me, this is difficult. The “servicer” refused to correspond, as they say “it’s not your loan”
    It seems like you want me to make a rash decision, rush out and hand 10K to a lawyer, and say -Hey figure this out” but that is not his job is it, I need to get the facts first, and for starters, maybe I would like to get back ALL the money I paid the last ten years,
    Would this be out of line? But see, who would be responsible for that? I do not yet know all the facts remember! I just know that I will never get clear title, and this is why they refused my offer of tender, and they knew THE FIRST LOAN had not been PAID OFF!

    I will never have clear title, and that fact I do know,

    And if FIRST AMERICAN TITLE COMPANY had the title plants like they claim, why were they making loan after loan? DUH! They were setting me up in fraud.

    And again, I am not YET able to even comprehend fully what happened so I do not know what I should do, or not do.

    I just know that quiet title cannot likeley succeed, and how will spending $$$$$$$ on a lawyer for QT help, if I don’t think it would be successful.

    One reason, is as….. background, the “four owners” , the heirs-were in litigation between themselves for FIVE YEARS prior to ’99 over this property (again not disclosed to me) and one of the owners is the MISSING GRANT DEED, and I think- have a pretty good idea, based on the FIVE YEAR case files, that the other three owners had their names forged to GDS, and QT will not be viable against forgery

    AM I RIGHT? A simple question. If the other three owners had their names forged, and thought they were collecting a pittance of rent the past 10+ years, then maybe they will have an issue with a QT action? AM I RIGHT?

    If the legal owners disputed between each other (Family Love) in court with over 4 lawyers involved for FIVE YEARS, and it’s still not really resolved , with this now a new issue, (it was a multi-million probate) They spent FIVE YEARS of LEGAL FEES, fighting each other, and wow, that I cannot comprehend either!

    I do not see that even trying to get a lawyer is going to be viable, as the costs of this would be over double what the property is worth, as the house is a TEAR DOWN, remember, and if its worth only IN TRUE VALUE ..100K,. then spending a MILLION to litigate, is not a SOLUTION KC.
    Remember I have NOT EVEN TALKED TO AN ATTORNEY ABOUT THIS ISSUE!~

    So please KC, I would appreciate it if you read the facts that I write, and understand that the OLD HOUSE is a -pretty much- separate issue, then the NEW HOUSE, and that I have not even discovered all the FACTS. I just found this out a few months ago!

    All I know is that the ONE GRANT DEED is missing from the county records, and that it seems the earlier loans were never paid off, and of course no one wanted me to find this all out.

    I keep hearing “Go BK ” But Why? what will this do? It will not give me TITLE, right???

    BK will not give me title to another persons property if it does turn out the other names were forged, and they want to step BACK INTO COURT, and they very well probably will.
    I mean would not you, if you found your name was forged? and you…. thought the property manager was sending you rent checks all these past 10 years?
    Pretty sure this is what happened, as they own multiple millions of dollars of property with lots of rents coming in, and would not have known this happened.

    Would you just say, “Oh that’s OK, you can keep my property!” WOULD YOU?

    Also If the property has other loans (of the true owners) that were not paid, A BK will not affect them RIGHT?

    So, KC please quit trying to look like you “made an offer of HELP,” and that I turned it down, and am a fool for not taking your advice,
    or that I even tried to get a lawyer, as I have not even talked to one about this, and I need to find out what POINT a lawyer is, before I hire one right?
    I mean you do not sue someone unless you think you can get something AM I RIGHT?
    What would I sue for?
    Who would I sue?

    So why do you want me to get a lawyer so fast KC? Please expound on the reason to hire an attorney on this issue, because I don’t see why, not yet at least,
    What would I have an attorney do?
    What would I ask him/her to file suit over?
    Can you even answer these simple questions?

    I certainly am not prepared to spend even 100 K litigating on this property, and that is not unreasonable to expect this amount of attorney fees over what will be probably a knock-down-fight of multiple years,…over this once more between the four sibling owners.

    You have not offered any HELP, KC and its a rush to judgment to make it seem like I should make any decision so soon, when I do not have ALL the facts, and I just found all this out.

    as soon as all the owners have notice, of this, then maybe someone will come up with something we can all deal with. But I have to notify everyone first.

    Nobody has given me any viable solution, and simply telling me to VACATE, that’s a bit odd it seems, as why?
    How will that help anyone? It won’t give clear title to the “unsecured lender” so why rush into this.
    Maybe I should get all the facts before I do anything, and I do not even live there KC, family members that happens to need some assistance…lives there.
    Needy persons live there, so why should they be kicked out before all the facts are found out.

    The loans, though, that is also A SEPARATE ISSUE, so keep it separate, and has nothing to do with the issue of forged Grant DEEDS, and MISSING GRANT DEEDS, and the loans are….simply unsecured, if I do not own the property RIGHT?

    If the true owners want the property, I cannot defeat this I would think.
    It would cost more then the property is worth to even litigate…. so I have NOT filed suit, and I have not talked to a lawyer! Please stop with the propaganda and lies KC.
    I have NOT TRIED TO GET A LAWYER ON THIS ISSUE…… Okay?

    They “servicer” did refuse my offer of rescission, remember KC, so please quit pretending I did not offer payment, I did, and I offered this in writing, and they turned it down.
    I tried to PAY!

  34. Hello people… I stumbled upon this yesterday and everyone should read it, especially those in Mass. I am calling out to “Anonymous” here, to weigh in here. This explains alot. Option One AHMSI etc….. The transferring of servicing rights. AH HA!!?? I have not searched beyond this yet, but boy is this interesting. Rescission?? There’s that word. Here is the link:

    http://www.fhfa.gov/webfiles/22598/FHFA%20v%20Royal%20Bank%20of%20Scotland.pdf

    Look at paragraph 181. paragrafh 213 ” Freddie Mac sustained substantial damages in connection with ther investments in the GSE certificates and has the right to RESCIND the consideration paid for the GSE Certificates, with intereset thereon.”

    Citizens Bank is owned by RBS, ( former employee) And suddenly…. when I found our first shitty Refi in Option One Mortgage Loan Trust 2006-1, even though we closed in 5/2006, a lightbulb went off. Long story short. In reading the PSA for the above mentioned trust, is where I read the words “Freddie Mac”, and for the first time saw the words in print under the paragraph entitled “Default” “dual tracking..” Ah ha!! It all makes sense now. Current bullshit refi “owned” by Freddie, Wells Fargo Servicing. Robosigned mortgage release with no cancelled note from AHMSI.

    This involves Freddie and Fannie who bought these GSE Certficates, and it has cusip numbers in here as well. Many trusts that Lynn S. has been speaking about.

    So… if Freddie and Fannie rescinded this garbage, , and got their money back? hmmmmmm…. and this doesn’t even speak about the loans/ notes not getting into these trusts on time to begin with in violation of NY Trust/REMIC laws….and most if not all of these Trusts were closed before 2008. Or stopped reporting. hmmmm……

    Mass. law gives you 4 years to rescind your loan, not three. FYI.

    Give it a read, and chime in. I think I just answered all of my questions.

    @ Anonymous….. what say you??!!

  35. Martha, it sounds like the prop you bought in l999 had a messed up title at the time and might have been in (still unresolved) litigation?
    But, I am still wondering WHO is on title at the recorder’s? You weren’t really very clear. The last recorded deed was to whom? The party from whom you bought it, or someone else? Signing loan docs does not put one in title, as you know. Very uncommon, in fact, not heard of for a loan to close on a purchase without a deed at the time of the loan. I suppose it could happen, tho. dunno. Not sure what the cure for a missing deed is, short of some lousy court action.
    A title examiner (title co.) might give you some assistance.

  36. Here is what gets to me Martha, “you & your husband bought a house without getting legal title and your husband is still responsible for the loan. You admit before you signed the papers you were informed about not getting a Grant Deed. You were given disclosure and you still signed! ……. Now compare yourself to the people who bought a forclosed home and did not get legal title either. The DIFFERANCE is they did not get DISCLOSURE before signing and you did! Yet your husband and they are still responsible for paying their loans. ….. All are in the same sinking ship, no legal title and a mortgage loan that still needs paid.. Right? In both situations the buyers are at risk of the previous owners or lien holders coming back for the property. Neither party can pass good title to any potential buyer. Right? Then why in tarnation are you taking advice from Carie? This was the only reason I was trying to help you and steer you in the right direction. But now that I see your true colors … I’ve had a change of heart. I certainly understand why no attorney will take your case. He.”. double hocky sticks ….. who is putting up the biggest smoke screen?, you or the banks? We are done. I will not longer address you or your issues. Good Luck!

  37. Martha’s Words from her post below ……

    .”This OLD house needs MASSIVE money to fix, repair and just maintain, and I really do hate it, but some people in my large family still want to live here.”

    What do you do if you never got title, and do not want title, yet the county has the tax role in your name?
    ———————————————————————————————–

    …….Listen to yourself …Are you lost in the weeds or smokin them? Just Sayin….

  38. what about filing a quiet title action and having the court quiet the title in your name once and for all??

  39. So, you want me to just VACATE, that’s easy, except other people live there that have been paying upkeep, and possibly have maybe some rights.
    what if I VACATE? then the what happens to the property? TELL ME!
    What if I VACATE? Are you saying people should ABANDON property? Sheesh, you should put a smilycon next to that sucker.

    I could still be sued possibly and that will not protect me?
    Just Abandoning property… that does not seem viable, as who would then pay the taxes? The county needs this tax money!
    Thats your brilliant answer? Vacate the property?
    Ok, all you homeowners, take note, just pack your crap up and leave!

  40. @johngault.

    No, sorry, you have it a bit convoluted. Just a bit..

    I am talking now only about the OLD house,

    Its not a NEWLY CONSTRUCTED house, but is an old, worn down ( a tear-down) home that we went in ESCROW in’ 99 to in what I now see was a scam.

    and the rest is very close and I will address it in parentheses. after each point.

    you say:
    He refinanced it later – you didn’t want to and someone else signed your name to the refi docs and this 1) has been proved 2) hasn’t been proved.(* not yet even analyzed by an expert, if you mean PROVED, I just know I did not sign the deeds they recorded, it was a doc switch-common CW practice)
Someone with the title co. said you weren’t getting the deed in l999 when you purchased, but you proceeded, and you never have gotten the deed, altho the county shows you as the party to dun for taxes. ( in ’99 I had no idea what was going on , so did “I proceed” ? that is not answerable, as I was in the dark about real-esate. I was just given a set of keys by my husband)
Someone else is in title. Who? (The party on the LAST GRANT DEED., and they NEVER conveyed it to us, for starters. *was more then one owner, but this party is the “missing grant deed, the title company sent the letter about.”)
No one is currently after you trying to foreclose, but the upkeep is expensive and you’d rather not do it for someone else’s benefit. ( would you?)
    You made an offer of tender for rescission based on? some time ago to 86 your husband’s refi – the one with your forged signature – in an effort to resolve the issue, and that offer was rejected. (yes, they rejected rescission in writing, and I have the letter)
    We don’t know how you and your spouse took title in the first place, because no deed to you has ever issued…? ( the County just put us on the tax role, and then claimed we owned it, and the tax bills -the escrow paid-came with our names, but the actual previous owners NEVER signed a grant deed and there is NO grant deed from them to us in the county records, and there are five years of a lawsuit about the title prior to us, and we had not a clue about this. *No active lis pendens, but was an old one that the title co canceled the day b4 I got keys.)

    JOHN,

    AS for “FORECLOSING, well that is a “PROCESS” not an event, and I have letters of them refusing my rescission, and now they just sent a letter saying they sold the “debt” or something vague like this, and now they claim they are going to “AUCTION., not the property, but the “NOTE” …and of course they need no ones permission to hold an auction on a note, and I am clearly not the legal owner of the house, and I have not gotten ANY bills sent to me, and so it’s quite a quandary situation, and I have never seen such a mixed up thing like this.

    there is simply NO GRANT DEED from the previous owner, TO US.

    ITS MISSING, and of course it was done to defraud us, and so this is WHY the “BANK” refused my offer of TENDER, and what is a person to do?

    I will NEVER have clear title, even if I had paid full tender, (and they took my offer) so meanwhile, family live in it, and its a rat-hole (as far as I am concerned) and the house is a TEAR DOWN, but, still its a roof, and its a mixed up mess.

    It needs thousands of dollars of work to maintain it, painting, hardscape, repairs, its OLD, and its a burden as far as I am concerned.

  41. Martha, in Illinois the property tax bill goes to the the person on title automaticaly. This is why there is such a huge issue with the banks leaving the title in the homeowners name for months and even years after the forclosure. The banks are not transferring title and the homeowners are still getting billed for sewer and taxes. The homeowner gets judgements against them for the sewer and the taxes are sold down the road. And the judgements are reported to homeowners credit report and they get their wages garnished. Check with your county recorders office and find out how it is done in your state. If it is the same as here, all you have to do is have them update the tax records to the owner on record of title. Vacate the property and cancel the ins. Easy!

  42. @Martha – my take from info supplied: you and your hubby bought a newly constructed ? house in 1999 or so and got a loan to do so – a purchase money loan. He refinanced it later – you didn’t want to and someone else signed your name to the refi docs and this 1) has been proved 2) hasn’t been proved.
    Someone with the title co. said you weren’t getting the deed in l999 when you purchased, but you proceeded, and you never have gotten the deed, altho the county shows you as the party to dun for taxes.
    Someone else is in title. Who?
    No one is currently after you trying to foreclose, but the upkeep is expensive and you’d rather not do it for someone else’s benefit. You made an offer of tender for rescission based on? some time ago to 86 your husband’s refi – the one with your forged signature – in an effort to resolve the issue, and that offer was rejected. We don’t know how you and your spouse took title in the first place, because no deed to you has ever issued…?
    Just seeing if this is right.

  43. KC, The states LAWS really have no effect on debt do they, as the STATES divorce court can assign debts to any particular spouse if they want, but this has no bearing on what the spouse signed,

    as If MARY and JOE…. both sign an amx credit card, and then Joe is assigned, that debt via divorce agreement, AMX is not going to care about that, and if Joe stops paying, they will go after MARY, who admits signing the cc app. DV court or not, they can still go after the party that signed, they don’t care you “agreed ole Joe would pay”

    and yes they will ALWAYS get you on procedure, everyone knows this, attorney or not… nothing will protect you from this. Its a SCARE TACTIC.
    Your DOOMED NO MATTER WHAT, but do not let this stop you!
    I Knew this from the beginning, and still had to give it a shot.

    I actually have read many more cases of attorneys losing on procedure then housewives though.

    just sayin.

    and playing nice? Kat, your the one that threw sand on my tater-tots!

    And maybe you need a pill or two, or a glass or-few…to stop the mixed messages as,

    you say

    “I might even tell you what to do about the title …. But (and I hesitate to say it) your going to need an attorney.

    KC. WHY do you possibly think I NEED an attorney, I need an attorney about as much as I need a third tit. (for this crap at least)

    I do NOT HAVE TITLE, (to the old house) and I do not WANT TITLE, and I would really like to know what you think an attorney is going to do for me?

    WHY would I sue? (insert some answer here)
    Who would I SUE? (insert some answer here)
    What would I gain from a lawsuit? (insert some really brilliant answer here)
    I would rather milk cats all day then sue over this OLD house!

    I gave up all my possessions three years ago, I stopped wearing diamonds, I gave away my pearls. I literally gave to the salvation army a mass load of antiques.. just possessions. Things that tied me down,.

    I learned that nothing of this material stuff really matters,
    yes, some things crept back in in my life, and yes, maybe I do like a nicer car, and a pretty pair of boots, and a nice dress, and a great bottle of fine wine, (or two) but can I live happily without it?

    No doubt!

    As for HIS debt, thats his problem, as far as I am concerned, and all I care about is paying TAXES, and this where all the money needs to be going, instead of offshore accounts of MICHAEL PERRY CEO of INDYMAC.

  44. @Las Vegas … unfortunatly No. There were so many aspects of the fraud … I have knowledge in some areas … I’m a duck out of water when it comes to procedure. But I will try to help if I can.

  45. @kathy charlotte

    so if i needed info on what happened to me you are qualified to answer?

  46. Sorry Martha, no drugs, no alcohal and no happy pills for me. Just Mother Nature taking her course. Unless you consider blood thinners mind altering drugs. But my health is not what we are talking about here is it? Check your states Marital Laws reguarding assets & debt aquired during marriage. Each state is differant. And if you make a Real Effort to play nice with your classmates here …. I might even tell you what to do about the title …. But (and I hesitate to say it) your going to need an attorney. You can not take a crash course in Civil Law, Consumer Law, Criminal Law, Marital Law and Land Law and expect to win your case. They will get you with procedure everytime.

  47. John, it’s difficult to explain as I have been on here two years, and there are two very DIFFERENT issues, (two houses) . really totally separate issues.

    I just started posting about the OLD house for the most part.

    The OLD house is what all the YAK is about today, and I went into ESCROW in 99 for it, but the title company in ’99 said in writing, btw, “your not going to get the GRANT DEED, and it’s missing, but do you still want to take out a loan?”

    I was way stupid then, and one day we were ‘just given keys” and the county put us on the tax roles, but we never got the MISSING GD, and I had no idea until recent we NEVER were the legal owners,

    then in 03′ I started to not want to do the re-fi’s that hubby was being constantly called on the phone to do, literally a re-fi OR TWO each year, and so I started to refuse to sign any loan docs, and was told I was just “offering my half as collateral” on his loans.

    He just refused to listen to me, and still does. Which is why I am going to pull a Katie Holmes on him. shhh!

    Then he did a loan in Jan 07, and I found out in 09’ that they just forged my name to different docs and recorded those, making it look like I was a borrower, then I sent an offer of FULL TENDER and recession, and they said we “DON’T accept this) and refused my money, (less the interest PER TILA of course,) which is why I wanted to TENDER b4 3 yrs. to save all that interest.

    SO, I just found out by reading old records, (and having new education) that wow, thats what that letter of ’99 meant, and when they said we were not getting the GD, it meant we were not getting title?
    SO what does a person do, when you find out you never had the legal rights, and you would never get them, and you really (personally) do not want to continue to MAINTAIN this expensive house, (not value, but taxes, repairs, and very high util bills) ?

    John, it’s difficult to explain as I have been on here two years, and there are two very DIFFERENT issues, (two houses) . really totally separate issues.
    I just started posting about the OLD house for the most part.

    The OLD house is what all the YAK is about today, and I went into ESCROW in 99 for it, but the title company in ’99 said in writing, btw, “your not going to get the GRANT DEED, and it’s missing, but do you still want to take out a loan?”

    I was way stupid then, and one day we were ‘just given keys” and the county put us on the tax roles, but we never got the MISSING GD, and I had no idea until recent we NEVER were the legal owners,

    then in 03′ I started to not want to do the re-fi’s that hubby was being constantly called on the phone to do, literally a re-fi OR TWO each year, and so I started to refuse to sign any loan docs, and was told I was just “offering my half as collateral” on his loans.

    He just refused to listen to me, and still does. Which is why I am going to pull a Katie Holmes on him. shhh!

    Then he did a loan in Jan 07, and I found out in 09’ that they just forged my name to different docs and recorded those, making it look like I was a borrower, then I sent an offer of FULL TENDER and recession, and they said we “DON’T accept this) and refused my money, (less the interest PER TILA of course,) which is why I wanted to TENDER b4 3 yrs. to save all that interest.

    SO, I just found out by reading old records, (and having new education) that wow, thats what that letter of ’99 meant, and when they said we were not getting the GD, it meant we were not getting title?
    SO what does a person do, when you find out you never had the legal rights, and you would never get them, and you really (personally) do not want to continue to MAINTAIN this expensive house, (not value, but taxes, repairs, and very high util bills) ?

  48. Wow, KC. you said something that was like…from a..dare I say this….a man? What, no emoticons? No hair pulliing? NO SCREAMING?
    Have you been in enraged’s purse, stealing her meds, and are all pooped out?
    or maybe there was something in the blue crayons?

    I have been offering FULL tender in writing (before I found out about ALL the defects) and no one wanted the money, and this was the oddest thing. See, back then I had access to a lot of CASH and could do full tender, and yet no one would take it.

    And KC, not ONE SINGLE PARTY has sent me a bill for anything in regards to any property, and that is a fact.

    Not once, not in over six years I think..
    there has not been a mortgage in my name for almost 15years, so no I do not have a mortgage,

    Me just pledging the non-existent rights to property I DID NOT own, does not make a mortgage in my name. And it does not obligate me to pay anyone anything.
    (still this is all about the OLD house)

    BTW.. I was offering full tender on RICHARD’S loans, (soon to be ex hubby) and I NEVER signed any loan paperwork at all since ’03, refusing to obligate my personal net worthlessness.

    the loans were not mine, yet I still tried to get them off his back and did the legal effect, of offering tender on his behalf, and they would not take the money.

    I would bet over 1/3 the country has complete DEFECTIVE TITLE, and no I am not happy about this, this is BAD, its not good for any of us, I have friends on pensions too.

    But this does not change what happened to me, and it does not make the defects go away, and in the meantime no one has any answers on what to do.

    This OLD house needs MASSIVE money to fix, repair and just maintain, and I really do hate it, but some people in my large family still want to live here.

    What do you do if you never got title, and do not want title, yet the county has the tax role in your name?

  49. Martha, I’m not an att. This is not an offer for any kind of help! I’m interested in your deal nonetheless. Can you sum it up, BRIEFLY, just bottom line?
    You bought a home or two or tried to – lot #’s were switched. You didn’t sign note and dot, never got deed(s)? Person who did forge your name is in jail? What’s the problem? I may have no comments, in which case you might have articulated this – again – for naught. But, if you will do it succinctly, maybe something will click with someone since others, like me, might have gotten lost on your deal over time. If I don’t comment, it’s because I have nothing constructive to offer. Sorry for what you’ve app been thru.

  50. I could have written that more clearly, I see. The small guy (“sg”) could not sell loans directly to fnma and fhlmc. One had to be an approved “FNMA/FHLMC Seller/Servicer” for that. This req’d a substantial net worth, among other things. The sg had to go thru a larger co., like CW et al, called here bigger guys (“bg”), who bundled the loans in pools and then sold them to F/F. “Gov’t” loans – fha and va – were sold to GNMA.

    Bg provided funding thru a warehouse line to the sg or else Bg table-funded, about which I’m not getting into just now re: who’s the lender. The point of my comment was to first and foremost apprise anyone interested that the bg’s underwrote those loans and secondly that the loans were supposed to be underwritten to F/F standards, unless being sold to a private outfit, like RFC, think was one, or any private outfit that would buy garbage, in a word. I think it’s safe to say that garbage buyers appeared, but because the money was better, some garbage loans got foisted where they shouldn’t have: F and F (and maybe because the bg was short a few loans for the F/F pool, so garbage got thrown in and then maybe it became rote since everyone was too busy to really look, otherwise knows as diligence.)

  51. @Martha … ask yourself why they did not accept that full tender offer? Could it be that they knew they could not deliver legal title to you? Of course it was silly girl.

  52. Thank you supporters! Those you post, and those who just pray.

    I am not asking for legal advice, and heck while we are on the subject, I don’t even know “what that is”

    What exactly is legal advice?

    I am simply asking for opinions on the situation of finding that I NEVER GOT THE GRANT DEED, and the title company informed me IN WRITING it was MISSING, and would NOT BE DELIVERED 10 years ago (when I was a li’l bit stupider) and I want to know ANY opinions on what would anyone do?

    what the heck should I do?
    This site is now hijacked, and KC and others (enraged, who is now a lurker) want to get into girly- cat-fights on bs, just to distract from the TITLE DEFECTS and complete corruption of the U.S. property title system.

    I really am interested in what others would do in the situation, especially those in the GOV. I am open to reasonable advice, and hey, they should have taken my FULL TENDER OFFER three years ago, before I found out about the DEFECT.

    Now….what do I do?

  53. @Kathy: what makes you think anything you write here can be taken as “LEGAL ADVICE”? Do you get paid for writing about your opinion? Then anyone who gives acquaintances medical advice when they don’t feel well could get sued for giving bad “MEDICAL ADVICE”? In the U.S. legal Mafia industry even lawyers don’t give legal advice, they just steal clients money & let them perish, like they did with Martha. don’t they??

  54. Nice work John! This is very true! This is also why borrowers who did not sign the refi docs (bait&switch, false info such as their income was listed to high etc….) ended up in forclosure. They continued their payments to the current servicer while the”” Was Not the new lender/servicer”” forclosed. If a borrower did not sign … they were harrassed to death by the broker with a new deal .. any deal.. what ever they had to do to get that signature.. threats, intimidation, send the signing agent to your doorstep without an appointment. Have LPS/DocX create the signatures etc… And when the Smart homeowner decides to take his business elsewhere and tell the broker to take a flyin leap …. they ended up in forclosure by the new would be lender even thou they never missed a payment. The worst part is the folks are drug into litigation for years, … being labled deadbeats! I seen and still see this going on ….. We must prosecute!

  55. The reason I can not answer your question Martha is because it is a Legal Question, I am not an attorney. I advised you to seek an attorney and you ripped my head off … Althou I know the answer, I am Not an attorney and that would be giving you legal advise. I’m not going to put everything my husband and I have worked for 30+ years on the line by giving legal advise and get sued for it. I find it difficult to believe you can not find an attorney unless A) No one wants the drama of a hot head or B) you dont have the money. Lets be honest here … are you paying the mortgage on the property? yes or no

  56. @there is some value, maybe slight, not sure, in seeing that a “Countrywide” was named as the lender in a funding transmission of some kind. No call by me here who the lender was, btw. The value, imo, if nothing else, is that it tells one that CW, or whomever, underwrote and approved the loan. That’s been something that’s been irksome along….a CW says we have nothing to do with any bs at origination. I beg to differ. Every CW et al who operated this way – underwrote and purchased (or call them the lender if you must) made warranties to FNMA, FHLMC, FHA, VA, etc. about the quality of the loans they underwrote and approved for others which were intended to be sold, guaranteed, or insured to or by any of them. Back before the days of the “self-insuring loan (NOT FHA and VA loans), which came to be on high loan to value loans by throwing the pmi premium into the note rate (raised it to cover pmi), the co. which was to issue the pmi also had to underwrite the file and sign off. Just for your info. The failure to exercise purdent underwriting standards would be, as we’ve seen (haven’t we?) goes to one of the agencies. Did the borrower have a legal right to believe her loan was / would be underwritten prudently? I don’t know. Certainly a borrower is owed certain facts, not fiction. Many states do not impose a fiduciary of any kind on lenders, tho I think I’ve seen exceptions, and anyway, that doing a bs job of underwriting may not fall under fiduciary. What if any culpability do these underwriters have? I don’t know.
    Seems to me as to the originator, there is probably a duty of good faith and fair dealing, as in you may have a right to get the better end of the deal, but that doesn’t include fraud.

    The u/w package has everything in it, the loan appl, the verifications (if any, that is), the credit report, the appraisal, the Reg Z truth in lending disclosure, the good faith estimate, etc. and the underwriter signed off on the package. Not sure what it’s good for exactly, but people should know this. Any loan brokered to a CW, a B of A, a WF: same thing. These loans were called “spot loans”, I believe. Loans that were closed and already funded and then were sold were called “whole loans”. fwiw.
    Joe Broker or Joe Correspondent helped supply the B of A’s, etc.
    with loans to fill pools of closed loans to FNMA and FHLMC. Loans were sold to those agencies in large blocks. Well, that’s what they did before rampant securitization, anyway.
    Also, before everyone acted brainless, many appraisals got caught in what is called a “desk review”, which is where someone qualified, other than the orig appraiser of course, reviews the appraisal to look at such things as out of whack adjustments to comps, say. There is no
    legal mandate to do desk reviews, so can’t hang your hat there. Just info. But, that didn’t relieve the underwriter of looking at the appraisal in an educated manner because the u/w had contractually agreed with others that it would.

  57. KC your a leo tard. A lot of stretch, and very little substance.
    I am not in foreclosure either. I have not defaulted on any thing I obligated myself for. Anyone that clams otherwise is defaming me.

    what IS foreclosure? and what make you think someone is in it? is not foreclosure a process, and do not you have to sign documents for this to even occur?

    i thought people had to sign things agreeing others could do this “process” if they wanted to.

    Again, Miss so-smarty, what do I do about the OLD house, since you seem to have all the answers? What is a solution?

    No one has any idea?
    Its a matter of public record that I did not get a grant deed, and that the SELLER, claimed he owned it two years after the county put me on the tax role, and was making insurance claims on it.

    instead of offering help, or parts of a solution you get all girly-twisted and do the “Nana-nana-nana your-in-foreclosure, and I am not” song.

    you claim to be so smart, then what is the logical step in this situation of NO GRANT DEED?

  58. True character revealed.

  59. WOW! You are crossing the line Martha. Thats discrimination! Just because I ride the short bus , lick windows and chew on my crayons is not a reason for you to discriminate and call me names. What can I say? Oh Yea! I Know! I’m not the one in forclosure! Can you hear me now Martha!! I AM NOT THE ONE BEING FORCLOSED ON!

  60. KC, such semantic wasting of time?
    You take offense, and say

    “I never claimed to be the solution”

    So this means that you acknowledge there is the existence of a “Solution” of that I will call “A”

    And then you claim you want to be a part of this “solution”

    If the object of the item that you wanted to be a part of was a an “APPLE”
    and then you become a part of this “APPLE” , lets say “the core, (rotten, no doubt,) are you still not an APPLE.

    I mean when I see an APPLE I say this is an APPLE,..I do not say this is a mass of something, of that is pulp and skin, seeds and a stem. IT’S AN APPLE.

    So you want to squabble about semantics?

    This is like making the claim you want to be a part of the APPLE, or and then when I call you an APPLE you pipe up and say, no, I am just the core. How dare you call me an APPLE!

    So you say you want to be part of the SOLUTION, yet when I rephrase this, you say no, I just want to be a part of it, and you are wrong?

    And, oh yeah all those stupid little female cuties you feel you need to add to your posts , like grin and splat.. are pretty damm fifth grade. I bet your still doodling “Johnny loves me” in swirly hearts on your notebooks during a lull in hearings.

  61. No Martha … I never claimed to be the solution. ( maybe some more ZIN will improve your reading skills) I actually said … I want to be part of the solution and not part of the problem. Enough said …. Splat!

  62. “A good attorney” thats the contradiction of the day.

  63. Gee, KC why are you here?
    You claim your the solution, but I see you as part of the problem.
    really, why are you here? how is this going to help you?

    You want to help me, then arrest the other agent who did this.

    I do not underestimate the value of this “NET DISBURSEMENT TRANSMITTAL” document, but again the courts do not care that this all occurred, and they ignore the evidence and the facts.

    I told the court how they switched the loans, and gave them ALL FOUR numbers off MERS, and the NDT, and this is called conclusory?

    I can just see how this attorney thing is going to work out, IF I even began to trust one, and I am still looking for a someone out there to help me end this litigation.

    and DCB I am another guinea pig just like you.

    My mind really would be best used for other things.

    I bet they already got the MOTION typed up for them to “REQUEST ENFORCEMENT of THE SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT” that this attorney will file UNDER SEAL, about a week after I sign a retainer.no doubt, and the court will force me to be bound to it…

    SIgn me up!

    My god! The court is letting parties I NEVER SUED, come into court and demurrer, and claim I sued them, when I did NOT, and then the court dismissed them with prejudice, when I never even sued them?
    And I have to spend all my time time writing objections to these people even coming in to the court?

    Why don’t ya all start arresting people at the top of this chain, and as for me, all I need is for you/them to arrest the other woman, STAYCEE BLAND, for THIS FRAUD, and then just admit this all happened and say sorry.

    And you still have no answer on what a party should do if they find out they NEVER GOT THE GRANT DEED, to a house, and litigation is of no use in this, what do I do with the OLD house?

    What does the government want me to do with this old house?

  64. .. you under estimate the value of that net dispersment transmittal, A Good Attorney could explain it to you. Just sayin …. 🙂

  65. @GUEST,

    I have posted on here that I did in fact get pre-sale document, and this was another mistake of them in the crime they did to me, accidently letting this document get into my hand.

    The Document is called a “Net Disbursement Transmittal” report, and on it it showed the lender was “COUNTRYWIDE HOME LOANS INC.

    and I was told that they were the actual lender and that it was just CUSTOM to name the broker as the lender on the documents.

    It really does not matter for most to have this info though, and if you think that getting this will help you, your wasting your time I would surmise.

    In my case its just another piece of evidence about the switched loans, so unless your a victim of this, its not going to help much unless you can show a break in the chain of assignments, and then it very well could, except the forgery is so rampant, they will just forge assignments and the Judges do not care for the most part.

    The judges are scared of the impending collapse of the pensions, and I do not blame them.

  66. @usedkarguy

    Did you also get the document detailing the purchase of the loan before you signed the note; but the original lender endorsed the note to a party other than the purchaser?

    If the original lender already sold its rights, title and interests before the loan was closed, what did it transfer to the party who accepted the note? Seems to me that the buyer of the loan would have to deliver the note to the next party, or it would be a break in the chain of title. However, I admit that I am confused.

  67. guest: I got a Wells mortgage with a Deutsche Bank check. No surprise.

  68. I’m confused. Is it uncommon for lenders to provide documents giving details of the loan presale and showing funding from a source other than the named lender in the note and mortgage? Isn’t this transaction called table funding? I thought funding coming from an outside party was well known and accepted in the securitization process.

    Someone on this blog recently reported having documents that show the transactions Neil wrote about here. After reading Neil’s comments, I checked and also found documents detailing a side transaction not mentioned in the origination documents. I got the documents after I was sued. The documents do not mention the original lender in any way. I just assumed, since the servicer sent them to me, that it was no big deal. But now, I’m not sure.

    Let me know if any more of you have documents that detail the presale and outside funding. I am very curious about this now.

  69. @carie

    Okay so you don’t know, cool, anybody else have knowledge of who can collect $ on my home? how is a simple homeowner supposed to know what to do? All I want to know is what the heck has happened to me, are there any other frauds i need to know about and how do i bring this to a close?….

    I am not a lawyer or an accountant, i do not work for banks, title companies or wall street, nor am I an accountant or investment advisor…just a simple bewildered homeowner.

  70. I’m just reporting, sorry…not a lawyer…which wouldn’t help much anyway in this climate of corruption.

  71. @carie

    Irregardless of who is “anonymous” (aren’t we all?)- i’ll bite, okay let’s agree of what anon claims- now what? how do i prove it, do i have to prove it?

    I’ll go into the rabbit hole (in for a penny, in for a pound) and ask- Who
    “owns” my “loan” or claim collection rights on my home?

  72. Kathy Charlotte- thanks
    this lil gal is a professional single mom hardworking going places, saved her money good head on her shoulders, it hurts me to think shes getting screwed by a property flipper living in shanghai or perhaps attorney of foreclosure mill, xyz company dba zyx company.
    she paid far far too much for the place. the cycle repeats itself while ever there is a market and non transparency.

  73. from ANONYMOUS:

    Neil just never quite “got it.” (I) agree with him, as to the subprime, that the origination is false. But, it is false for different reasons than Neil asserts. Neil has to separate his markets. My focus has always been — subprime refinance.
    Subprime refinance was GSE’s rejects. And, subprime was in great demand because of the higher interest rate it paid to security investors. Security investors, however, are not the creditor — they are not the creditor for prime debt, not the creditor for subprime, not the creditor for GSE loans. They are, in fact, never the creditor. And, they do not fund any loans. They fund the BANKs — who are the “investors” in the debt. If you were ever to name security investors for TILA violations, or request rescission, you would be immediately tossed out of court. This is NOT the way the market works — no matter how Neil tries to slice and dice it to “make-it” work. It does not work, will not work in court, and counterproductive to foreclosure defense. Neil has never quite understood the distinction between security investors and investors. Ask him to define this in terms of Freddie/Fannie. Freddie/Fannie is the INVESTOR, security investors invest in Freddie/Fannie pass-throughs. They are NOT the same. And, niether Freddie/Fannie, as investor, or security investors in Fannie/Freddie pass-throughs — are the lender/creditor under federal law.
    I also agree with Neil that the financial transaction occurred with a different party than stated at origination. But, Neil has the “trail of money” wrong. Subprime refinances were created by reporting default to the GSEs, prior to refinance, to make sure the GSE could not “invest” in the refinance. Banks wanted themselves to be the “investor.” . GSEs charge off the falsely reported debt, servicer or mortgagee collects insurance and pays GSE –and, simultaneously, purchases rights to the (false) default debt. And, the mortgagee “modifies” the default debt by calling it a refinance. Borrower remains in default with GSE.
    NO funding is necessary, unless borrower requests “cash-out.” These (false) default debts were, perhaps, modified several times. No problem for debt buyer “investor” — because, if borrowers did not pay the high rates — foreclosure was the option. Default is default to courts, they just do not know that the loan was a (false) default before actual default.
    Now, ask Neil, whether or not he knows if prior loan was paid off — to a specified trust — at the time of the last so-called refinance. Does Neil think that the loan was not securitized prior to last refinance?? They were. What about the security investors to the prior trust — before refinance? Nothing prior is validly paid off. And, that is the money trail that he is missing. Why was prior loan not paid off?? It did not have to be — refinance was only modification of the false default debt.
    The wire transfer are meaningless, except that we can sometimes use them to help show that loans were table funded. Was money actually transferred by the stated wire transfer?? Maybe, but that money was paid right back to the party who is “modifying” the loan by the claimed refinance. In other words, payoff of prior loan is directed right back to the party that owns the collection rights. There is never a payoff of anything.
    There is no “trading” of ownership of the “loan” (although some debt buyers may “swap” collection rights). There is a “trading”/transfer of servicing rights.
    Also, I do not dispute that banks were beneficiaries of payouts. But, not sure which payout Neil is referring to. First, the banks were the investors to default debt/collection rights, they were the ones that purchased the collection rights from the GSEs. Prospectus may not outline that the “loans” were first sold to an affiliate of the security underwriter (some do), but is clear by the conversion of the so-called loans to certificates in a trust, that they are sold to the security underwriters. These security underwriters, actually their parent corp., were the “investors.” The subprime lending corporations (now all gone) worked for these “investment/commercial” banks. Banks could operate as both investor and lender by repeal of Glass Steagall (which, by the way, many are calling for return to). Second, once the certificates were allocated to tranches, and sold to the the “investment/commercial” banks, the banks kept the upper tranches for themselves, and pawned off subordinate tranches to other “investors” — most often, another bank. Lower tranches may have been sold to other entities. But, the bigger effect upon the public, was the Collateralized Debt Obligations (CDOs) that were derived from organizing multiple trusts, multiple certificates, and multiple tranches — into a CDO. A SYNTHETIC derivatives that leveraged the fake loans — over and over.
    Credit default swaps are often executed with cash and without transfer of collection rights. The banks do this privately, to parties not divulged publicly or to the borrower. That is, if they can dispose of collection rights. For a long time, market was shut down. But, thanks to government assistance (ha-ha), it has been greatly been revived.

  74. I don’t think Obama is a front man for WS and its cronies, despite appearances. I think other things, but I do think he has an ego that he at least occasionally serves and I don’t know if it sometimes stands in for his spine or not.

  75. @iwantmynpv … Prosecution and Transparency are coming. I know who hides behind the sunglasses (corporate veil). Its the Elephants and the Jackasses both…

  76. @Deborah. This is a common practice, I have been to closings here in IL with the AZ loans, and had to make a repeated point of having the buyers discuss the Title Commitment and or Title Ins Policy (if there was one in the closing package) with an Attorney before signing anything. Out of State buyers are the perfect victims. Many pay cash …. I must say that the CFPB (consumer finance protection bureau) is on the tail as we speak!

  77. phoenix-for those with credit score left- a collegue bought a home, she looked at me and said ” its not a foreclosure its a flip”
    does that answer any questions. not wanting to burst her bubble i told her to have an attorney look at title insurance and make it air tight.

  78. usedkarguy

    The market is going lower. the PTI is still 3.2 with an historic 2.6. After the elections we will witness the largest plunge ever. The bnaks know once President Obama is re-elected that have their guy in power and he will be setting up the nest egg.

    Housing will find its bottom regardless of artificial interest rates. As with any other pinnacle in money supply, the correction must come. They simply have not socialized enough of the (artificial) loss to the taxpayers through fannie and freddie yet.

    Drought and mass starvation across many nations later this year will be the need for yet another stimulous (truthfully about velocity) package which will buy them the 24 months needed to dump the remaining MBS and loan level loss on the unsuspecting taxpayer.

    Socialists in Capitalist clothing. Look behind the sunglasses to see who really pulls the global strings, financially and politically.

    The rest is but a mere illusion designed and distributed as covert propoganda to keep ourinds elsewhere.

    Did i mention the realty market was heading lower?

  79. spelling correction,, “Federal Prosecutor”. It’s going to be a Snowball Fight and I have Front Row Seats! 🙂 Its time to take back our Banks and our Congress! Its the First Step to Restore Trust and let Recovery begin! God Bless America! Let Freedom Ring once Again!

  80. […] Filed under: bubble, CDO, CORRUPTION, currency, Eviction, foreclosure, GTC | Honor, Investor, Mortgage, securities fraud Tagged: money trail, pretender lender, waiver of subrogation, wire transfer instructions Livinglies’s Weblog […]

  81. @All! I just had to share this! I’m proud to call our newest Federal Prosacuter here locally my Friend! You go gettem girl! Whooo..Happy Dance! sends * evil grins* @ the Greedy!

  82. That’s ok carie

    I lost a beautiful property Last year to “foreclosure”. I was pushef inthe it in the worst of all possible worlds: Virginia. he only way I’ve been able to maintain my sanity is to try to figure out why the courts are so lacking in a sense of outrage. Except for isolated judges there is no redress.

    Of course the thing that sticks in my craw is that the banks have to lie to take ones home. Worst of the worst lie, used in my case, is the lost note affidavit. An invitation to defraud if there ever was one

  83. Sorry Jim—I just realized you were speaking from the court’s perspective…haven’t had my coffee yet…my bad.

  84. @Jim

    Do you really think that destroying the middle class and creating abject poverty and despair and illness and death is a “benefit” that everyone got?

  85. @Jim

    REALLY? A “bizarre set of transactions”? Replace the word bizarre with criminal. I guess you are one of those sorry people that think criminality should go unpunished…well, unfortunately so does our lovely government.

  86. expkaibed?

  87. Mr Editor

    You have expkaibed this sham for years now.

    But guess what. The courts have rationalized the transaction differently. That is: all parties including the hapless homeowner participated in a bizarre set of transactions, the object of which ultimately, was to purchase or refinance realty and for the most part, everyone got a benefit. The homeowner defaulted (arguably) on his end of the transaction and therefore cannot be heard to complain if he or she must suffer the consequences of the purported default. Further it isn’t for the courts to straighten out this financial tangle. If the banks are satisfied then let’s just move on

  88. Barry Ritholtz puts it all together in an encyclopedia of the financial elites crime spree. Send it to your senator if you can get his or her attention away from the K Street money trough.

    http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2012/07/are-big-banks-criminal-enterprises/

  89. Median Price for Existing Homes at Highest Level Since 2008;
    Sales Drop in June to 8-Month Low

    what can you read between the headline?

    Where is the market going? You tell me.

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