Banks’ Stranglehold Tightens: We’re Almost out of Air


COMBO Title and Securitization Search, Report, Documents, Analysis & Commentary GET COMBO TITLE AND SECURITIZATION ANALYSIS – CLICK HERE

“That means no jobs for the foreseeable future — not just for us but for the children moving back in with us and our grandchildren. Forget retirement. That pension you were counting on is finally going to be announced as cut off or reduced because of the massive losses taken by the pension funds who bought the bogus securitization bonds for credit cards, auto loans, mortgages, student loans, furniture loans etc.” Neil F Garfield,


EDITOR’S COMMENT AND ANALYSIS: If you are around my age, approaching 65 in a  couple of months, you want to retire, kick back, stay retired and never work again. You’ve paid your dues. But it is likely that you will soon be back at some job that you can barely perform just to make ends meet. And your dependent children over the age of 45 in some cases are going to hear the word “no” from the lips of people who want to help, but can’t.

The recession continues to deepen for most Americans. And the capital that would reverse the trend in directly in the hands of the megabanks who are “awash in money.” That capital was siphoned out of the U.S. Economy through fraud, deception and other egregious, even criminal behavior. It is unfathomable why we allow this continue. I guess the real question is whether we, as a society are going to permit the banks to divide us into camps that oppose each other instead of realizing we are all in the same boat.

The employment figures are grim and nobody is able to put a happy face on it anymore. There won’t be any jobs until the banking crisis is over — until all aspects of the consumer credit market have leveled off, until all credit-worthy risks are funded, and until the bank’s control over our government is ended — really stopped, as opposed to some public relations stunt like the “settlement” they are trying to get at least some states to sign onto that amounts to Amnesty for the banks and continuing control of our democracy.

Our democracy has been corrupted and our capitalist economy has been cornered and, controlled and manipulated by just a few people pulling the levers of power performing acts that everyone knew 100 years ago were against the interest of the financial system and the society that allows that financial system to exist. Crony capitalism and and corrupt politicians make for some “fun” Halloween parties (see article on Steven Baum Law Firm), but for those of us who don’t walk in the clique of power brokers, we don’t enjoy the benefits of our real life Boardwalk Empire.

In India, the unlikely source of a surge for reform comes from the middle class that are still doing well, but who are tired of political corruption in their system and who fear for their futures. Somebody with the experience and brains and wisdom must take the longer view, like the middle class Indian families, and see where this is headed.

Here, maybe it could be the white haired people, like myself, who vote every time and who remember a time when America was #1 in just about everything. We reject the system that reduced our educational system to rubble, created millions of homeless people, and can’t give a job to trained, experienced, hardworking job-seekers. We reject the right of banks to steal and we reject their ability to keep what they stole. We want the money back but more important, we want our country back.

Employment Probably Cooled in October: U.S. Economy Preview

Oct. 30 (Bloomberg) — Employment probably cooled in October, indicating the U.S. recovery remains too weak, economists said before reports this week.

Payrolls climbed by 95,000 workers after a 103,000 September increase, according to the median forecast of 65 economists surveyed by Bloomberg News ahead of Nov. 4 data from the Labor Department. The jobless rate was 9.1 percent for a fourth consecutive month, the report may also show.

Hiring slowed even as the economy grew in the third quarter at the fastest pace in a year, showing why some Federal Reserve policy makers have said in advance of their meeting this week that the central bank should be prepared to do more. While retailers like Macy’s Inc. are boosting staff ahead of the holidays, bigger job gains are needed to spur consumer spending.

“Yes, there’s job growth, but it’s not good enough,” said Jonathan Basile, an economist at Credit Suisse in New York. “We have a labor market that is very frustrating for policy makers. They’ve tried a bunch of things but the unemployment rate remains elevated.”

The jobless rate has exceeded 8 percent since February 2009, the longest stretch of such levels of unemployment since monthly records began in 1948.

Private payrolls, which exclude government jobs, rose 125,000 after a gain of 137,000 in September, economists forecast the Labor Department report will show.

The projected gain in total payrolls would bring the average for July through October to 96,000, compared with 131,000 in the first six months of the year.

More Needed

Sustained increases of around 150,000 a month are needed to bring unemployment down about half a percentage point over a year, according to Chris Rupkey, chief financial economist at Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi UFJ Ltd. in New York.

Through September, the economy had recovered about 2.09 million of the 8.75 million jobs lost as a result of the 18- month recession that ended in June 2009.

Faster hiring would spur bigger gains in incomes and bolster confidence, helping cushion against declines in home prices and allowing households to sustain their spending. Purchases grew at a 2.4 percent annual rate in the third quarter and the economy expanded at a 2.5 percent pace, the Commerce Department reported last week.

Investors are turning more optimistic about the global economic outlook as Europe takes steps to limit the damage from its credit crisis. The Standard & Poor’s 500 Index last week extended its biggest monthly rally since 1974 as European leaders agreed to expand a bailout fund to $1.4 trillion and American growth accelerated.

Holiday Hiring

Some retailers are betting last quarter’s gain in spending will be sustained during the November-December holiday shopping season. Macy’s, the second-biggest U.S. department-store chain, is stepping up hiring of mostly part-time employees by 4 percent for the period. Kohl’s Corp., the fourth-largest U.S. department-store chain, plans to add more than 40,000 holiday workers, a 5 percent gain from 2010.

President Barack Obama is seeking ways to take action to spur hiring without congressional approval after the Senate blocked his $447 billion proposal. The plan included expanding a payroll tax break due to expire at the end of 2011, lifting spending on public works and extending jobless benefits.

Fed officials pledged in August to hold the benchmark interest rate near zero at least through the middle of 2013 so long as joblessness stays high and the inflation outlook is subdued. On Sept. 21, the central bank announced a plan to replace debt in its portfolio with longer-term Treasuries to help cut borrowing costs. Policy makers meet on Nov. 1 and 2.

More Stimulus

Fed Vice Chairman Janet Yellen, Governor Daniel Tarullo and Federal Reserve Bank of New York President William C. Dudley were among the policy makers this month saying additional stimulus by the central bank may be needed.

Some companies continue to pare staff. Whirlpool Corp., the world’s largest maker of household appliances, said it planned to cut more than 5,000 jobs and trimmed its earnings forecast. The workforce reductions will be primarily within North America and Europe and include the closure of the refrigeration manufacturing site in Fort Smith, Arkansas, by mid-2012.

“We are taking necessary actions to address a much more challenging global economic environment,” Chief Executive Officer Jeff Fettig said in a statement on Oct. 28.

One bright spot for the recovery is manufacturing, which accounts for about 12 percent of the economy. A report on Nov. 1 may show the Institute for Supply Management’s factory index rose to 52 this month from 51.6 in September, according to the Bloomberg survey median. A reading above 50 signals expansion.

Economists also projected the Tempe, Arizona-based ISM group’s gauge of service industries, due on Nov. 3, climbed to a five-month high of 53.6 in October.

Bloomberg Survey                         Release    Period    Prior     Median Indicator                 Date               Value    Forecast 

Construct Spending MOM%   11/1     Sept.      1.4%      0.3% ISM Manu Index            11/1      Oct.      51.6      52.0 ISM NonManu Index         11/3      Oct.      53.0      53.6 Factory Orders MOM%       11/3     Sept.     -0.2%     -0.1% Nonfarm Payrolls ,000’s   11/4      Oct.      103        95 Private Payrolls ,000’s   11/4      Oct.      137       125 Manu Payrolls ,000’s      11/4      Oct.      -13        4 Unemploy Rate %           11/4      Oct.      9.1%      9.1%

To contact the reporter on this story: Shobhana Chandra in Washington at <>
To contact the editor responsible for this story: Christopher Wellisz at <>
Find out more about Bloomberg for iPad: <>

53 Responses

  1. We have been sold out in so many ways by so many who were supposed to be helping us.
    The biggest failure is our govt, HUD was supposed to be the watch dog, the protector of the homeowners.
    What happened?
    How is it that the banks managed to pull a fast one over on HUD?
    What am I talking about?
    When you get a FHA or VA loan, that loan is guaranteed by the govt, if you fail to pay up, the Feds pay the banks.
    When HUD or the VA pays the bank loan off, who now owns the house?
    HUD and the VA, right?
    So how is it that after getting the payment, HUD and the VA allows the banks to continue with the foreclosure and EVICTION!
    ONLY THE OWNER CAN EVICT, and the owner is now the govt! Not the banks!
    The next thing the bank does is list the house with a real estate broker and sell the house, THAT THEY NO LONGER OWN!
    And allow them to do this repeatedly with the same houses,over and over again.
    Is HUD and the VA complicit with the banks? Are they the silent partners in the destruction of our nation by allowing the banks to run amok?
    It’s bad enough that the govt lets the banks set the rules for foreclosures, turns a blind eye and a deaf ear to all the illegal actions by the banks and lenders.
    HUD and the VA sit back like cowards before a bully and do nothing.
    The same govt that could round up tens of thousands of Japanese Americans and send them all to concentration camps. The govt took their homes, their lands, their businesses, and their freedom away without trial or any evidence of any kind of wrong doing?
    The same govt that had no problem issuing demands of Eminent Domain and taking over whatever land for whatever purpose they had in mind! Same govt that gave away land that belonged to the American Indians by treaty, same govt that grabbed most of the land west of the Mississippi to hold in trust and refuse to allow anyone without some cash to buy a leasehold for oil drilling or mining, to live on that land.
    Since when do bank rules and regulations surpass govt law and legislation?
    President Obama let his advisors force the HAMP program on the people and still allowed the banks to screw over the people with the very program that was supposed to help!
    How could the best minds in govt not see that everything the banks were doing was illegal and unjust.
    When the banks say jump, the govt says how high?
    It’s all so wrong on so many levels!
    Massive fraud and theft is rampant and the only one who gets caught is Bernie Maddoff?
    And he’s not even a banker!
    Troops can be rallied to go overseas to stop injustice and tyranny but can’t gather two national guardsmen to stop bank thugs from breaking into homes and illegally evicting innocent citizens of our own nation?

    It ain’t over, wait until Occupy Wall st. grabs hold of the foreclosure fiasco and starts demanding that all foreclosed homes be returned to the rightful owners!

  2. @edgetradeplus—–

    sorry. But have you read any of my posts here on livinglies for the past year?

    And that would be Other than the one directly directed at you tonight?

    But no matter, you ought to read it again, what I directed at you specifically tonight. And you might find I have agreed with what you wrote. But I guess I wasn’t clear enough for you to understand that I had agreed with you but was in fact reinforcing what you wrote. How are them pickles?

    Now my dear mr edgetraderplus,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    for you to state this regarding me, and you state this-

    “Sorry, cubed2k, we are on opposite ends of your opinion spectrum.
    Anybody who is unaware that Congress is bought and paid for is one
    who is uniformly uninformed.”

    Well your statement above in quotes is pure fact that you have never read any of my posts here on livinglies,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and I won’t shoot the messenger……………..but you can suck my pickle………………hahhahhaha

  3. I believe that defeat prevails when people spend their time talking about how powerful the other side is. Focus and prepare your own side, power it up. When you find what you need to be more powerful, demand it, grab it, own it.

    The 1% doesn’t spend their time talking about how powerful main street is. Perhaps the 1% spends their time ridiculing main street.

    How can the 99% expect to win if the 99% spends their time talking about how powerful the 1% is while the 1% talks about how ridiculous the 99% are?

  4. Halloween 2011

    Sorry, cubed2k, we are on opposite ends of your opinion spectrum.
    Anybody who is unaware that Congress is bought and paid for is one
    who is uniformly uninformed.

    Big money, actually the NWO, [New World Order], controls everything
    in this country, from the president on down. Controls everything,
    everywhere. The moneychangers rule.

    You say a homeowner has no clout, yet every homeowner has full
    control to fight, and win against any “lender/bank” in court, if they
    chose to inform and arm themselves with the myriad court cases as a

    Consequently, the “influence on public opinion” is meaningless and not
    the point. The influence from the action of one leads to influence and
    spur on others, individually, not as a collective.

    > A home owner that has no clout, no influence on public opinion, no
    > say but a one vote, can not change anything. Thus they are
    > powerless, as individuals,

    A homeowner has the most clout. Do you think Ibanez changed
    anything? Bellistri? Hendricks, among a slew of individual cases?
    How about April Charney? Neil Gartman? Matt Wiedner? The latter not homeowners, per se, but individuals who decided to make a

    “Groups?” What is your point? I am not sure even group therapy works.

    If you think those who are on TV are anything more than talking heads,
    paid to deliver a slanted media message to support the system, your
    chosen source for credibility is grossly misplaced.

    > How can a lonely homeowner change a contract or re-negotiate it?

    Why “change” a fraud. Expose it in court, using any number of
    successful cases, many state supreme court-tested. Challenge and
    expose the fraud for what it is. THAT is the power of one, and any
    number of individuals can replicate those successes. That road
    has already been paved. There are no excuses to say otherwise.

    > What leverage does the homeowner have? Leverage seems to be
    > a one way street. Is that fair?

    “Seems” is the operative word in your expression of hopelessness.
    An informed and determined homeowner has more leverage than any
    so-called “lender.” To call it a “lonely street” is an admission of your
    accepting a concept of powerlessness. Cannot help you there. Only
    you can decide to change that “seeming” lack of self-power.

    > Is that fair?

    Doesn’t matter, if one decides to attack with a winning attitude. That
    is a better way than simply saying, “Life is not fair.”


  5. dear john gault

    “Don’t shoot the messenger!”

    couldn’t agree more. Unfortunately the messengers don’t know. Who are the messengers………..people who work on wall street, secretary’s, job runners. new recruits via college students, janitors, IT people, computer jeeks, and and on————Sean Hannity, mark levin, both shows sponsored by Cap one credit cards.

    jeepers it’s on and on to the degree that financial services is 60% of GDP for USA, or maybe 40%, you tell me?

    who is behind the scenes…………..certainly not the messengers,,,,media, advertised media…………….

  6. @cubed2 – The sad answer to your question is the Golden Rule: He who has the gold rules. Don’t shoot the messenger!

  7. @edgetraderplus

    you said “Your attempt at logic is stated presumptively to suit your position.
    Many contracts are restructured, all the time. Pick any sport, for
    an easy example.”

    The difference to be noted in your statement is this, and what is subtle and nobody realizes how Congress is controlled by big money interests, the difference is this:

    A home owner that has no clout, no influence on public opinion, no say but a one vote, can not change anything. Thus they are powerless, as individuals, but as a group. I suppose that group is called Democrats vs Republicans nowadays.

    But one who is in public view or airwaves or promoted on TV can change views.


    you said’ and you are correct——-

    Many contracts are restructured, all the time. Pick any sport, for
    an easy example.”

    Here is the subtle

    Henry Arron, home run king, can resign any contract, why, he draws the crowds which bring in money……………


    How can a lonely Home Owner change a contract or re-negotiate it? What leverage does the home owner have? Leverage seems to be a one way street. Is that fair?

  8. E.Tolle – not just Latin – PIG latin! (anyone else remember pig latin?) That’s gonna be my new name for it. I was fond of MERS-speak, but Pig latin is so much more descriptive and doesn’t leave out any of them.

  9. thank you Edgetraderplus for you comments.

    Just wanted you to know I rec’d your communication and agree.

  10. thank you E. Tolle

  11. Halloween 2011

    > tnharry
    > The idea that there is a “right” to restructure flies in the face of contract law.

    Your attempt at logic is stated presumptively to suit your position.
    Many contracts are restructured, all the time. Pick any sport, for
    an easy example.

    Your assumptionis that a mortgage is a contract, yet only one party
    signed. Another assumption, so many packed in just your opening
    sentence, is that the “lender” did everything by the contract law, and
    THAT flies in the face of so many court cases in the foreclosure arena.
    Of course, I am talking about contested cases, and they grow greater
    in number with each passing month.

    > Allessandro Machi
    > We need more people like…
    > We need powerful ideas for main street that protect main street
    > from the further erosion of their assets to the banks.

    Who is this “We” you keep invoking? Who is “main street” that needs
    so much protection?

    Take action for yourself, and make a difference. I do not know why
    you require some unsepcified “We” to do what is incumbant upon
    each person to be in control of his/her circumstances.

    If anyone decides to not participate in the fraudulent banking system,
    no protection is required. Have YOU done that? Do you need some
    “We” to decide that for you?

    There is such a wealth of information out there from individuals who
    took action on their own, without waiting for a “We” to say they could
    do what the “system” says should not be done.

    You refer to bankers as “criminals.” Tell me, are you still do business
    with them, in any way, and thus endorsing their criminal enterprise?

    “We” cannot help you. You can. It is all about choices.

  12. @ Allesendro, the banks can be stopped and they will. It’s actually going to be quite easy and a painless process. When enough people stop playing their game, and thus when the hosts stop allowing the parasites to continue to suck at the life force of the real world, what I’d call the true GDPers, normalcy will return. It’s not going to take a consensus from the GOP and the Dems, no one is going to have to consult Congress for the proper legislation. Then we can simply start all over again taking care of the elderly, educating our youth, and concentrating on the truly important things in life that have gotten tossed to the side like neighbors and community.

    There’s already an alternative banking group meeting at OWS that has some pretty savvy folks knocking heads about how to move forward without usury and the other traits of the currently accepted system, the one that has outgrown its usefulness for all but the 1%. I’ve written here many times how if in fact it weren’t for 29% interest on a “just get me to Friday” credit card loan, or 2000% interest that the payday lenders all do, you know, Wells, B of A, Citi, the corner storefronts that they operate at arms length but 100% owned and operated by them, positioned in lower income neighborhoods….I know I don’t need to go on.

    The bottom line, at least for me is this….no one needs that crap, never did. It’s a byproduct of the capture that’s taken place over the last several decades while laws were tweaked out of existence and palms were greased to help in looking the other way. Just check out your own state laws on the credit industry or the likes, they’ll be dozens of “REPEALED” labels where there used to be enforcement statutes.

    One more thing @ tnharry, I’d be willing to bet that given a show of hands in this very room, 99 out of a hundred would be totally bent over and busted. Credit out of control due to no fault of their own, just from to trying to juggle things like food and fuel. Homes being lost to an indefensible system of Latin-speak that caters to cronyism and good-old-boy networks, the judge cracking up in the corner with the bankster attorneys. Food prices soaring. Koyaanisqatsi, look it up.

    And then there’s tnharry. Things are going pretty well actually. Business is booming. Who would have foreseen all of these foreclosures besides the banksters that were priming the pump with predatory loans around the clock. History will show, and it already has for those who read scholarly journals, that this was the biggest heist in the history of the planet. But tnharry and Pat Pulatie are doing pretty damned well off of the whole affair. Might just buy that used car being sold on the corner in the deserted neighborhood for pennies on the dollar. Such a deal!

  13. We need more people like E. Tolle and Carie who don’t feel the need to explain why banks are powerful and cannot be stopped.

    We need powerful ideas for main street that protect main street from the further erosion of their assets to the banks.

    Restructuring an existing debt without being declared in default by the criminal bankers would be a huge gain for main street. We don’t need to read why the banks won’t do it, we need to hear from a large enough consensus of main street that want this one thing done.

  14. Forget stand up—how about a padded cell?

  15. @ tnharry, you wrote:

    “The idea that there is a “right” to restructure flies in the face of contract law. Recognizing some overriding right would destabilize all contracts and ultimately lead to either less or no lending”

    Excuse me tnharry while I pick myself up off the floor and wipe the saliva off my face….I haven’t laughed that hard in years! I think I may have spoiled myself! Gheez you’re hilarious…

    Let’s see…the right to restructure….what exactly was TARP? Wasn’t that simply an agreement entered into by pro-bank factions (read: Goldman Sachs alum) that captured the United States government in order to purchase as much of the toxic crap that the illicit banking industry was churning out as fast as they could in hopes of staying one step ahead of the sound asleep regulators, with the sole purpose of grabbing taxpayer dollars while the public was yet unaware of the criminality? Kind of like exchanging freshly printed federal reserve notes for freshly deposited dog shit. That’s what I would call destabilizing.

    Let’s not forget the same bankster/government cronies refusal to prosecute, according to Bill Black, somewhere around 70K+ white collar….what I would call criminals who were writing the contracts you are referring to above, what you would refer to no doubt as fine upstanding financial industry representatives. We’ll just have to agree to disagree on the terminology. You say banker….I say traitor. You say contract law, I say pillaging pensioners. This stuff would seem to fly in the face of contract law in Black’s terminology; I’d be willing to bet you the farm on that one.

    As to the “no lending” part of your comic routine, that’s what TALF was. To this day, the Fed still refuses to answer who, why, and exactly how much….and you were concerned about destabilizing contracts? Have you considered doing stand-up in Vegas?

  16. And the second question is, should the gas station that sold the driver the defective gas and then charged that driver to tow them back to the gas station, also repossess the car if the driver can’t pay for the tow?

  17. tnHarry, I appreciate you directly addressing my idea. Keep in mind that since 2006 Homeowners have lost 7.3 TRILLION DOLLARS in home equity value.

    So when you say my idea would ruin how business is done, hasn’t that already happened? All my idea would do is re calibrate the interest being charged on existing debt.

    If you recall my analogy from earlier on, if you fill your car up with defective gasoline, then stall a ways down the road, should the gas station that sold you the defective gas charge to tow you back?

    Banks sold defective economic products that lured people into situations they otherwise would not have gone into. The civil way out is
    to restructure their debt without placing them in default.

  18. @Ian – i doubt you’ll get any of it back or otherwise credited to your account. just because the sale didn’t happen doesn’t mean fees and expenses weren’t incurred. and the deed of trust says that you’re liable for those. i’d be very surprised if you can get any relief from the amounts. as an example, in a nonjudicial sale, the foreclosure firm incurs expenses from advertising the sale in the paper, from recording documents, and from mail and/or service. those figures can run to a few thousand dollars depending on your location. and that’s exclusive of the atty fees for the legal work itself.

  19. tnharry- as much as I appreciate your to-the-point, factual counters to alot of the pie-in-the-sky ideas which come across LL: In all fairness, if borrowers/homeowners who have been foreclosed upon,or are currently being foreclosed upon,have been put in this position by banks/servicers/MERS/debt collectors/foreclosure mills illegally, then I think that something should be restructured, or, more exactly, erased,and large damages paid. And fines imposed. These securitized “loans” have crippled the US economy, and the global economy, through fraudulent, criminal acts. We all know that. And our children and grandchildren will be paying for decades to come, paying back bailouts and ‘losses’ which were caused by illegal activities. This is serious stuff here.
    While I have your attention, riddle me this: when I “cured” my “default”, the f/c mill tacked on 5% of the outstanding mortgage balance, but when I was never foreclosed, they just left it as is. How much of that am I supposed to get back? Any standard parameters? In your experience? In other words, they were paid to foreclose and didnt.Thanks.

  20. If the world didn’t have pretender lenders and pretender debt collectors,,,,,,,,,maybe everything would be alright……maybe we wouldn’t need millions of pages of new rules added every year

    so, who is sitting behind the scenes

  21. Prove it.

  22. What “mortgages”??? Where are they????

  23. @Alessandro – The idea that there is a “right” to restructure flies in the face of contract law. Recognizing some overriding right would destabilize all contracts and ultimately lead to either less or no lending, which leads to decreased homeownership. I agree that something has to be done, but I think the result should probably be based in the bankruptcy system. Allow mortgages to be modified and remove the protected status they currently enjoy. That’ll undoubtedly also affect mortgage lending, but it least it keeps the effect contained within BK.

    I have a problem with your idea that – “Legitimate reasons include, medical emergency, loss of job or reduction in take home pay, caretaking for a family member, underwater mortgage, student loan renegotiation, credit card interest rate renegotiation for those who would actually pay down their credit card debt. These are all reasonable scenarios for a consumer to request a debt restructure without first being placed into a default.” – It just seems to be more rules, more government, and more of the bureaucracy picking winners and losers. If one family has a reduction of 19% of their take home pay but the line is 20%, are they really so much better off financially that they can handle the lack of restructure?

  24. All agreements, contracts, mortgages, notes, everything you sign,

    that includes bank accounts……………….

    If you close any of these things or pay them off or default on them,,,,,,,,,,

    Why you should ask & DEMAND that they be returned to you,,,,,,,,,,,,,,the original agreements that you signed………………….the wet ink signatures.

    You don’t want them floating around the banks or wall street…………….

  25. WELCOME to the REAL WORLD.

    as edgetraderplus say…………

    get out of the banking system. Do not use consumer credit. You are only feeding the beast.

    It’s not called a SYSTEM for nothing. And it should be rightly called a PONZI SYSTEM. Because it must have new debt continually created, that’s you and you using consumer credit for really worthless stuff since it degrades over time and as soon as you buy it, you can’t sell it for what you paid for it, and you bought on credit – meaning your future income, time payments, you gave up your future for something you want now. You gave up your future time, production, energy, your life for a time payment.

  26. @JohnGault and Alessandro Machi.

    Your conversation between yourselves to end or solve the world’s problems on money.

    Don’t get me wrong. But you both are talking from a Ivory Tower that is not based on any real life experience. Sort of like the main stream economists with many titles attached to their names.

    Have either one of you filed for BK protection under Chapter 7 or 13?

    Under ch 7 if you make too much money (over $62k for a couple or household income) why you cannot get ch7 protection and you must use ch 13 then which is restructuring to a certain degree and you become a debt slave for 5 years after which time any remaining debt is discharged. Now during your ch 13 – 5 year period – you send in your yearly tax forms to the trustee to review. And if you make more money, why the excess above the IRS approved living expenses is distributed to the creditors. For both ch 7 and ch 13 if you have a nice painting worth 3K, why that must be sold and given to the trustee for distribution. Both plans are truly a liquidation of your possessions and a new start. Think that over.

    Now here is something to think over————(but you must remember & know this fact that the debt collection industry lobbyists (and banks) got the new BK laws changed in 2005, and you can read about it here –


    Let’s say you had 5 credit cards during the boom years of 2005-2008,,,,,,,one each Cap 1, Discover, Chase, BofA & Citibank. Each 5k limit. And you maxed each out.

    You loose your job. You default on all your credit cards. You are behind on your mortgage, you acquired some stuff.

    So the 5 credit card companies you have credit with and defaulted on, why 6 months go by and you no pay on them. After 6 months they write-off debt from their books, get insurance paid on your defaulted debt, they are made whole. But remember your CC debt was transfered into an ABS TRUST in the very beginning when you applied and got approved for those credit cards. Those CC companies are nothing more than marketing companies hiding behind a name like bank. Now all the defaulted and written off CC debt for a given time period is pooled together once again and put into a database and sold to a Debt Collection Company and sometimes auctioned to highest bidder, and the bigger debt collection companies are formed by the Wall Street machine. So all the defaulted debt is sold for pennies on the dollar.

    Now you start getting debt collector letters. Lets say you do nothing. Let’s say some time goes by, one of the debt collectors sue you, maybe two do. You figure why I’ll just file for BK 7. Not so fast, look at the rules again.

    You really look at the rules and realize holy bank robbery Batman, this ain’t so easy. You realize you can’t just file BK and be done with it.

    So you are in a pickle now. If you don’t answer the suit from the debt collector company within 30 days and some states 20 days, why they get an automatic default judgment and can garnish your wages. If you answer the debt collector suit, why you have just entered the court system and now you must either hire a lawyer or fiqure it out yourself per se or pro per and figure out the court rules on how to answer a law suit complaint.

    Lets say you are eligible for BK 7, all is good, everything is wiped out and you really have no assets at all.

    Lets say you can’t do Ch 7, but can do Ch 13. So you are on a 5 year repayment plan. You list all the original creditors and all the debt collector companies. The original creditors wrote off the debt, collected insurance and don’t want anything more to do with the debt. The debt collectors paid pennies on the dollar, so they want some money and inform the trustee, they then get paid from the trustee on whatever monies are distributed over the 5 year period.


    Now you know why the debt collection industry lobbied Congress and got the new BK laws passed in 2005.

    And if you paid for Credit Card Insurance while you were not in default,,,,,,,,,,why you paid the Cap 1 or Discover Card something they would have paid for anyways,,,,,,,,but what you are really paying for when you got the CC insurance, was them not selling your defaulted debt to a debt collector.

  27. […] Filed under: bubble, CDO, CORRUPTION, currency, Eviction, foreclosure, GTC | Honor, Investor, Mortgage, securities fraud Tagged: bankruptcy, borrower, countrywide, disclosure, foreclosure, foreclosure defense, foreclosure offense, foreclosures, fraud, LOAN MODIFICATION, modification, pension, pension funds, quiet title, rescission, RESPA, securitization, TILA audit, trustee, WEISBAND Livinglies’s Weblog […]

  28. AM, how would you suggest interest rates be legislated, because that is what you’re talking? How can government interfere with existing contractual agreements? I say it can (altho it isn’t actually, about which we’re all majorly and rightfully torked) on home loans because the gov (supposedly) forked over billions for that purpose with HAMP, etc.
    None of us want government interference with what is supposed to be free enterprise (do we?), well, legitimate free enterprise. Maybe some temporary measures (as long as they are clearly identified as temporary), but not permanent. There are things in this country which ostensibly started out as stop-gaps which turned into nightmare long term bs.
    I’m with the guy(s) on here who say the hell with credit anymore, but, man, that stinks.

    But may I ask, what is your big ticket with before you default? Your credit rating? And btw, do the banks etc have insurance on our credit card debt which would be implicated? Do you know?

  29. Hey E.Tolle.

    this video you provided link for jumped today to 143000 hits from 119000 hits from this morning………………..that would be Sunday 30 Oct———-

    hey hey, wall sheet———-trick or treat>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

  30. John and I were having what I thought was an illuminating and important discussion. I guess it amazes me that if these are not CIA people hijacking the discussion, the effect is just the same.

    Now, I like what was said that obfuscated the discussion that John and I were having, but what I find interesting is that Neil puts a couple of dozen topics every week, but this is the one that has to have two separate but interesting discussions go on that sort of cancel each other out.

  31. Which guy that you dont like are you supposed to vote for–or is that against!

  32. Why is the borrower a lessor ?

    When he lends his real estate as collateral for a securities deal with a bank.

  33. and the note is marked paid or not marked at all-it’s been converted.

  34. Question : Once again …why is the lender never the seller

    Answer: because the loan (line) was paid for with stock from the sponsor. The seller (bond) was the securities underwriter.

  35. Sunday Evening 30 October 2011


    > Question : Once again …why is the lender never the seller

    The seller of what?

  36. Sunday Evening 30 October 2011

    “Our democracy has been corrupted and our capitalist economy
    has been cornered…”

    [Fourth paragraph, first sentence from Editor’s note, above]


    Democracy? Things will never change because people who think
    they know things know so little about the mess they agreed to, over
    the past 100 – 150 years.

    This country was founded as a Republic, NOT a democracy. Look
    up a comparison between the two and learn something new today
    that just might help you sort your own self out, in general, to no one

    If anyone continues to use the word democracy to describe what
    they believe this country is, never complain about events in your life, ever again.

    Capitalist economy?!!

    What capitalist economy? That was gradually done away with ever
    since 23 December 1913, when the private corporation Federal
    Reserve was given control over this nation’s money supply by a de
    facto Congress abdicating its organic constitutional duty re money
    in this country, and then clinched by that socialist traitor Franklin
    Delano Roosevelt, in 1933.

    As a consequence, there are NO dollars in circulation, anymore. They have been replaced by commercial debt instruments, aka
    fiat Federal Reserve Notes, probably THE biggest ponzi scheme ever in the entire world.

    1. They are NOT Federal
    2. There are NO reserves behind them They are imaginary in
    value, [and it is YOUR imagination that provides the value.]
    3. They are NOT notes. There is NO promise to pay anyone
    anything at any time

    Despite the Federal Reserve printing the word “DOLLARS” on each
    commercial debt instrument, NO fiat Federal Reserve Note is a dollar, NOT ONE!

    These are undisputable facts. Check them out for yourself, then
    ask yourself why you continnue to believe in the lies and why in
    the world you continue to participate in this ponzi scheme. If you
    do not know the facts from the fictions, never ever again complain about your lot in life. You CHOSE it.

    You want to control your life? Get out of the banking system…
    ENTIRELY! If that is too inconvenient, then kiss your chances of
    freedom good-bye for forever, and bow down to your master, the
    de facto political system called the federal government.

    Why is it, do you suppose, that banks are threatening depositors
    with jail for WITHDRAWING THEIR OWN MONEY! The biggest fear
    of the banking system is that people may catch on the their ponzi
    scheme. Get ALL your “money” out of the banking system, which
    would cripple the ponzi scheme through exposure, and place your
    funds into REAL money, gold and silver, recognized as one of the
    oldest laws in this country.

    The sole purpose of the de facto federal political system, which you
    call your “government,” is the centralization of powers and the
    making of ALL its “US citizens” true domestic slaves.

    You want change? Start with the one in the mirror.

  37. Maher- don’t keep us in suspense! Why IS a QWR worth on average $325k to the depositor? Because it lets them know the “debt” is still being pursued by someone who they forgot about? And the lender is never the seller because………huh?
    Well answer me this- if two’s company, and three’s a crowd, what’s four, and five?

  38. MS—because there never was a LENDER. No “funding”…only collection rights assigned at closing…

    …Millions paying on unsecured false default debt masquerading as mortgages manufactured by sociopathic marauding materalists…

  39. Last one I promise . . .

    Why does a lender NEVER, EVER want to bring into court the Promissory Note?

    [Lenders – if these guy wont hear me then maybe you should.


    “good reading”
    Fought it with a Mortgage Audit
    by Elaine Bobbitt

  40. Why is the the depositor counting QWR’s like they are worth about $325,000 on average…laughing all the way to the bank?

  41. Why is the borrower a lessor ?


  42. Mischief makers;

    How are we doing here …any good chat rap to report ? Lender crimes and nursery rhymes …SEC tools and foreclosure fools prophesying answers to anything you need under the sun

    Its all good right …working that internet late at night ..searching guessing …waiting for what ? Marriage to fall apart or a new career when you discover the lost fountain of youth .

    I’m feeling a Little gratuitous again tonight so I have something to share …the stuff the hackers on MS Fraud like to laugh at and then steal …and put in a complaint . Then they they can sell to poor down and out types losing their homes…

    Anywhere…lets see… Here we go .Big Dan ..answer me this chief, Neil Reggie , Kenji Shibuya, Masa Saito Mil Mascaras ?.

    Why is the lender never the seller ?
    Hmmmm…hey dear ..look at this …hmm m Wow honey …right …call everyone for emergency conference call …lets go !

    Question : Once again …why is the lender never the seller

  43. lol, I see two Johns floating around out there in the internet community, kind of battling each other a bit.

    John, If a gas station sells you gasoline for a trip across the desert, but then your car stalls out 50 miles from the gas station because of defective gasoline, should the gas station charge you for a tow truck driver to come bring you better gas?

    Of course not. It’s the exact same thing with what has happened in the past ten years. People were lured into all kinds of debt based on a false, or defective economy.

    Debt restructure would mostly deal with reducing the interest rate on existing loans.

    and yes, there would have to be nuances to this change in the banking law that would allow debt restructures without debtors first being declared in default. Frankly, I see this one banking rule of law change as creating tens of thousands of banking jobs so that people could be vetted to make sure they have a legitimate reason for their debt restructure.

    Legitimate reasons include, medical emergency, loss of job or reduction in take home pay, caretaking for a family member, underwater mortgage, student loan renegotiation, credit card interest rate renegotiation for those who would actually pay down their credit card debt. These are all reasonable scenarios for a consumer to request a debt restructure without first being placed into a default.

  44. Why should they have the RIGHT? Generally, I would say no they don’t and shouldn’t. However, given that just now the 99% is by and large not responsible for their inability to meet their obligations thanks to the unprecedented losses of our assets and jobs, it might be justified.
    I suppose people hit by this bs would like to avoid bk and the potential loss of what they’ve worked hard for by meeting their obligations in an easier to handle fashion, such as a work-out. I take it you are not referring to
    notes and deeds of trust? I don’t know how one would approach getting such a deal implemented en masse. We can’t even get any real relief on our
    biggest debt, that on our homes.

  45. John, I just restated it in my prior response to you.

    People should have the right to restructure their debts WITHOUT first being placed in default.

  46. Well, shoot me! Sorry if I didn’t address your issue. What solution do you propose? Isn’t this a toughy?

  47. John, I stated that if you want the middle class to stop losing their wealth, they need the right to restructure their debt without first being placed in default.

    So explaining to me how things presently are just diffuses my point and empowers the bad guys.


  48. Alessandro – there was an agency called Consumer Credit Counselling one could go to to get help in restructuring personal debt. Back in the 80’s, it was the only one recognized as legit that I know of, i.e., not a consumer rip-off. However, as far as I know, just being in the program caused one or more negative hits on one’s credit report. So, if the goal is to restructure debt, but also to keep higher credit rating, probably not possible. I don’t know if they’re still around. There are other companies which advertize this service these days, but they may be rip-offs. I don’t know.

    In other news, Adam Levitin posted a blog about ‘lenders’ taking the hits (maybe my own interpretation) on our under-water homes. He suggests, and dont we agree?, that the banks got bailed out, they’ve recovered from their sins with our funds; now it’s time for Main Street’s recovery by way of meaningful debt reduction on our single largest assets, our homes – what’s left of them. He makes some good points about this being the ticket to our economic recovery. He further suggests other strategies considered aren’t going to cut it and he explains why. It’s worth a read. It’s worth a read because it’s more than a protest against what is; it proposes a solution, albeit without all the i’s dotted and t’s crossed.

    My own 2 cents: I am so not an economist, but still, does one have to be to see that if we weren’t all strapped with housing payments which are
    either unsustainable or are killing us, we might become consumers once again? On a personal note, and I don’t want to bore anyone with my stuff, I can truthfully state my life has changed in all the wrong ways since WS laid this mess on us all. And as to my family and my ability to do what I thought I could and would at this date, there’s that domino thing, and that really makes me angry.

    When the law is applied properly, imo, there will be many less foreclosures
    because of faulty and fatal paperwork by that gang. If anyone should benefit from other’s “lack of diligence”, it is not the offenders. In fact, offenders are prohibitted from gaining from their misdeeds. As a former Obama
    supporter, it aggrevates me to no end to see that he is content with the
    financial support of those who oppose the end of our oppression. We ARE
    oppressed. We are out-manned and out-finessed by cheaters who take advantage at every turn, including at the pacivity and or ignorance of the judiciary who could but don’t use their discretion to stop wrongs, in short. Obama is making a mistake if he undermines the value of our collectively withheld votes.
    If he doesn’t make some changes in favor of the polity soon, I have made a decision not to watch his election speeches, etc., lest I be influenced by his wit and charm rather than his deeds and I urge others to do the same.

    As to the i’s and the t’s, surely if those who could in this country hold the
    very large sticks which are clearly available, ala DE v MERS which is a clue, over the heads of WS and its cohorts, they can be made to ‘see the light’ and participate in fixing this economic mess. If Levitin is right, that will start with WS eating at least some share of the tsunami it created by way of
    debt reduction on our homes.

    Here is the link to Levitin’s article:

  49. @chris

    In the old days when times got tough and people stopped buying things – the local business owner lowered prices to keep the business going. He kept peope employed even if asking them to take a hit in pay temporarily until times get better – at same time helped them out in other ways- charity – barter – face to face community team players. Now mom and pops gone. Corporations react to people buying less by raising prices and laying off employees to keep the 1% invested.

    I don’t know anyone who isn’t cutting back and bugeting big time. So is this inflation? I don’t think so. Anyone buying stuff and even food is buying it on sale or stocking up for the long winter ahead using any credit they have left before it is shut down. It’s the same thing giving the same false appearance of profit as the “solvent” banks raising fees and profiting from foreclosure mill ect. any way they can. Survival mode for fake wallstreet gains.

  50. Just a note here: Even in this economy we are seeing the price of goods rising exponentially. The economists are talking about wages and my sights are set on costs. The grocery products are being reduced in quantity of 25% or more, as I write this example: Coffee 12 oz bags from $5-10.00, vegetables range from $2.50-$5.00 per lb or package, Ice Cream 1.5 quarts, down from 1/2 gallon
    (2 quarts) $4.00-$7.00 other items include bacon, juice, cookies, condiments, salad dressings, snacks, frozen veggies, etc…the wages are not even close to keeping up with this rise in pricing. Maybe our focus needs to be more focused on costs of goods. Ultimately, that would level off the need to increase wages, as that is near impossible.

    Let’s not forget gasoline…$3.50-$4.00 per gallon. Personally, I do not see where these cost increases make sense. Large corporations are holding us all hostage.

  51. I have suggested that if just one banking rule were changed, the middle class could be saved from further loss of their wealth and local economies would begin to heal from within.

    Change the banking rule that requires a person default BEFORE they can restructure their own debt, change that one rule to a person can restructure their debts WITHOUT first being declared in default, and main street has the tool it needs to fight back against the banks.

    How about it Neal, don’t you agree?

  52. Obama needs to go back home.

    He must be held accountable.
    Ben Bernanke
    must be sent home asap. the poor excuse of who will be instead of them. Is a looser mentality. If the next person doesnt work than he/she will be removed

    We cannot afford incompetence and it starts from the top.
    We the People

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