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EDITOR’S NOTE: If I was wrong on these pages, if I was the least bit influenced by conspiracy theory proponents, then why are the banks demanding immunity in any settlement with anyone over the mortgages, mortgage practices, foreclosures, and foreclosure practices?

And just how will any settlement cure the corruption of title chains in 100 million real estate transactions UNLESS we recognize that the whole thing was a ruse. That isn’t an opinion. It is  fact. We know that the loans were not really securitized because the notes, mortgages and loan documents were never transported, much less transferred. We know that the loan originator was not lending the money — that it was hapless pension fund managers and other investors who were lending the money. We know that straw-men w became the custom and practice of the industry. How would the banks have liked it if borrowers used straw-men?

The hidden liability here is who will get the shaft when it comes time to refinance or re-sell the home when the title chain does not satisfy even the most basic elements of title analysis?

Bank Foreclosure Deal Held Up Over Liability

By David McLaughlin and Dakin Campbell – Jul 21, 2011 9:01 PM MT

Delaware Attorney General Beau Biden and New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman , who are investigating the bundling of mortgage loans into securities, don’t want their probes blocked by a broad settlement of liability. Photographer: Keith Bedford/Bloomberg

A push by U.S. banks to win broad liability releases has become one of the main obstacles in talks to resolve a nationwide probe of mortgage-servicing and foreclosure practices, two people briefed on the matter said.

The mortgage servicers want protection from additional state and federal claims over their mortgage practices as part of reaching a settlement that may exceed $20 billion, according to the people, who declined to be named because the talks are private. The banks are seeking releases that go beyond servicing of mortgages to include lending and securitization of loans, one of the people said.

That effort has encountered resistance from at least two states. Delaware Attorney General Beau Biden and New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman, who are investigating the bundling of mortgage loans into securities, don’t want their probes blocked by a broad settlement of liability.

Biden said he has “strong reservations” about a deal that provides releases related to practices such as securitization and lending, because servicing is the focus of the nationwide settlement talks.

“We have an investigation going on. It would hinder our ability to do that, so that’s why I have real reservations,” Biden said in an interview.

State attorneys general and officials from federal agencies, including the Justice Department, are negotiating a nationwide agreement on foreclosure practices with the five largest mortgage servicers: Bank of America Corp. (BAC), JPMorgan Chase & Co. (JPM), Citigroup Inc. (C), Wells Fargo & Co. (WFC) and Ally Financial Inc.

Setting Standards

Officials are seeking a settlement that sets standards for how the banks service loans, interact with borrowers and conduct foreclosures, according to terms proposed in March. They are also seeking monetary payments. Attorneys general from all 50 states announced their investigation last year after reports that banks were using faulty foreclosure documents.

“Attorney General Schneiderman remains concerned by any settlement agreement that would preclude state attorneys general from conducting comprehensive investigations of the mortgage crisis,” Danny Kanner, a spokesman for the attorney general, said in an e-mailed statement.

Jamie Dimon, chief executive officer of New York-based JPMorgan Chase, said the bank was prepared to go to court if necessary.

“I would do anything to get it done today,” Dimon said July 14 about a settlement, according to a transcript of the company’s second-quarter earnings call. “But we’ve got to get it right. We’re not going to do it and be subject to double and triple jeopardy. We’d rather litigate it.”

Representatives of the banks declined to comment.

‘Hesitate to Release’

Biden said it would be “imprudent” to relinquish claims in areas that haven’t been fully investigated.

“I hesitate to release those claims and those potential liabilities mostly because we’re still in the midst of investigating many of the other related issues,” he said.

Iowa Attorney General Tom Miller, who is leading negotiations for the states, didn’t return a phone message seeking comment after regular business hours.

California Attorney General Kamala Harris is also conducting an investigation into mortgage practices. In May, Harris announced a mortgage-fraud task force that would investigate mortgage lending and the sale of mortgage-backed securities to investors. Shum Preston, a spokesman for Harris, declined to comment about the settlement talks.

To contact the reporters on this story: David McLaughlin in New York at dmclaughlin9@bloomberg.net; Dakin Campbell in San Francisco at dcampbell27@bloomberg.net

To contact the editor responsible for this story: Michael Hytha at mhytha@bloomberg.net; David Scheer at dscheer@bloomberg.net.

40 Responses

  1. unbelievable, guess their pockets are not that deep…or they are afraid of jail time

  2. Dylan Ratigan gets it…but they have a muzzle on him…check it out:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37560195/#43745938

  3. I just heard a commercial on the radio PUSHING (like a drug dealer), the FANTASTIC Chase Bank “Cash-Back Mortgage”! Yay! Sign me up! Obfuscate and lie to me more! Make me sign a new contract before I figure out what you did with the fake mortgages!!!

  4. I found an article about the report that came from the investigation on the Fed’s and I can not find it now. If anyone knows how to find it let me know. It will probably show up under the article ……Soon. It said the Fed loaned out 16 Trillion dollars to banks all over the world and big corporations for almost zero or next to nothing interest rate. And they steal our houses, and our wealth!

  5. I am so sick of the corruption. Please look at this!
    type this into your computer and see what your statutes of limitations are for your state. In Washington state a promissory note is time barred from collection after six years. An unsecured debt is timebarred after three years. In Florida it is four years for both the promissory note and the deed of trust. Tell the judge the alleged debt is time barred. Read all the articles on Statutes of limitations on Debt Collection. And check your state for Adverse Possession and the Castle law. The Doctrine of Laches, The doctrine of Ultra Vires and the forgery and the Utter law. These articles tell you the time barred statutes of limitations in every state.
    Debt problems: Statute of Limitations on Debt Collection
    http://www.bcsalliance.com/y_debt_sol.html – Cached – Block all http://www.bcsalliance.com results
    State Statutes of Limitation on Debt Collection … See also: Debt Kit — Settle unsecured debts for less than half of amount owed …
    California – Texas – Wage Garnishments — State Statutes

    The Statute of Limitations Act – iinet.net.au

  6. Marie, I understand, I have been trying to think of all kinds of ways for them to get out of it and I can’t think of any..when I first started to understand what had happened my reaction was omg, they have so messed up. That was just the beginning of my research. I was going crazy with just the robo-signing and didn’t even realize how deep the rabbit hole went. I have been glued to this moniter for months now and it just keeps getting better/worse. Took me a while to see the whole picture and even now I doubt I have even really seen that yet. The fact is the title is clouded. That is the basic fact and they can’t fix it. End of story. No settlement can fix the clouded titles of millions of homes. Congress can’t do anything about it. The states can’t do anything about it. This is basic real estate 101. Kudos to everyone that has stopped making payments on those fraudulent loans.

  7. Alice

    I was throwing out ideas. The money people who own the various legislatures will come up with a scheme: there’s money in it. They will find a way to finesse the title issues. They must and they’re the smartest guys in the room, right? If not, maybe they’ll hire mr Garfield to figure it out for them. Nothing is impossible when you have the full faith and credit of the US of A backing you up

  8. Faith, I pulled the docs on my congressman and he has a document filed that wasn’t even notorized. I go back and forth on this and whether I should send him a copies of the fraud on his own docs. Have found robo-signed docs on my state rep. as well and did forward to a/g a couple months ago..crickets. They really want this to just go away and I believe are so ignorant that they really just don’t think this affects them in any way. Perhaps they aren’t worried because if a problems comes up they just call their friendly campaign contributer and get it all worked out. One thing I just thought of though, I haven’t pulled the docs on my a/g… that will be my homework 🙂

  9. carie, indeed. I don’t know how these auctions work now, does the borrower get pre-approved for a loan? In my day the buyer had to have the money on the day of the sale, in hand. I live in non/jud state and haven’t even looked at the ‘new rules’ but I imagine there have been plenty to get more victims for the scam. You should research this in a few days and see how the title was passed. Would be interesting to see how the title issue was addressed. The Deed signed by the seller to the buyer will probably state the seller has no liability for title problems. I wonder how the title company handled this and further how did the ‘closing agent’ clear title or did the title policy get issued with an exception to title problems. These sales are just getting the players in this scam in deeper and deeper.

  10. They just auctioned a house up my street…started at $50,000 and ended at $325,000. Nice young couple…all excited that they won…somebody just got away with murder…

  11. I really would like to see a coalition of lawyers and judges that understand this whole thing and come together at the local level to stop it. Old school lawyers need to get up to speed and this site is doing a wonderful job of educating interested parties of what went down. I agree with Neil, the fact that a settlement is even being talked about is admitting that the whole thing was a scam. People must reach a point where they know that every loan is fraudulent, there hasn’t been a legitimate loan obtained in the last decade and no one has an interest in their home other than the homeowner.

  12. Anonymous, indeed that is the liability ‘ who will get the shaft’. I am seeing deeds now for short sales and f/c’s that are ‘special deeds’ and the lanquage relieves the seller of liabilty as to title issues. Perhaps that is the way property sales will take place in this brave new world. In one case I looked at title insurance was not even issued. I don’t know why anyone would buy property when there is no ‘insurance’ that the title is clean and transferrable. The sellers are relying on the ignorance of the buyer and we are now starting to see the results of that with the original owner getting their home back. The shaft is going to the ‘all cash’ buyer and/or his new loan that the pretender will insist be paid. They end up loosing their money and the property and who wins… the lender who got a ‘free house’ in fraudclosure and pockets the ‘all cash’.

  13. Marie, I don’t understand how the states can reset titles to certain dates. Every title is unique just as every homebuyer is unique. When I was in the business computer programs were coming out to ‘process’ home loans. They programs didn’t work because there are no two loans alike. Pehaps that is why they finally just threw out all the income and asset verification and pretty much relied on the ‘credit score’ which I despise to this day. I left the business in ’98 when loans were still pure for the most part. My knowledge is based on the lawful way that a chain of title is established. I have read that title companies are worried but they were also in on the founding of MERS which was the vehicle to get these loans to wall street. There is no way they can insure anything at this point and i suppose if they just quit requiring a chain of title they could get around this issue. Why then would anyone buy a home if they knew they would never have an interest, it would simply be a 30 year lease. The title companies may as well close as their purpose and income is derived from researching the chain of title. The settlement talks mean nothing to me because they fix nothing and are probably just being used to quiet the people that have caught on to this scheme.

  14. TUESDAY’S AGENDA – NEW CENTURY MORTGAGE & HOME123 CORPORATION- FOR THEIR BANKRUPTCY IN DELAWARE FOR 7-26-2011

    SOME PRO SE’S UP THERE FIGHTING AND ONE IS SCHEDULED FOR ORAL ARGUMENTS

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/60728756/NEW-CENTURY-BANKRUPTCY-COURT-AGENDA-FOR-7-26-2011-SOME-PRO-SE-S-SCHEDULED-FOR-ORAL-ARGUMENTS

  15. What we need is criminal investigation — missing.

    Insurance fraud is criminal.

  16. Again, how can WE get to NY and Delaware AGs????

  17. Christopher King,

    Thank you for the video. Amazing.

    “We own the house” — who the heck is “WE???”

  18. Get your popcorn ready, folks!

    FRIDAY, JULY 22, 2011
    KingCast/Mortgage Movies sees fake Maryland foreclosure cops
    trespass and get a smack down.

    http://mortgagemovies.blogspot.com/2011/07/kingcastmortgage-movies-sees-fake_22.html

  19. No, Marie — we are not done. We have only begun.

    Yes, settlements will block additional investigation — that is the game. However, new evidence is continually surfacing to challenge the settlements — based upon fraudulent concealment. And, by the AGs — lack of investigation.

    Thank you, NY and DE. How can we get to you — if we do not live in your state??? Anyone???

    And, Neil you are not “wrong on these pages” — you have just not gone far enough. “investors” — that is a key term. And, what did these “investors” invest in???

    Neil you right — with your final statement —- “The hidden liability here is who will get the shaft when it comes time to refinance or re-sell the home when the title chain does not satisfy even the most basic elements of title analysis?”

    We have only touched the surface.

  20. the only way they get away with the whitewash is if we let them.everyone needs to make some noise in their states with their ag’s. i got on the horn with my state representitive here in massachusetts and managed to get a meeting with his aid. this was after i told him my story about gmac forging my signature, documents, etc etc. he asked that i bring copies for them to take. i am happy to oblige. i am going to make it clear i expect them to tell our ag to hold off until they know the extent of the fraud. this settlement is nonsense. how can you settle or negotiate a settlement before you know how far the damages go?

  21. I say we each take some time and go through the assignments done for some of those more high profile people in our communities and check to see those that have been robosigned. Send them a letter describing what has happened and how it effects their property. Or even those of you with some real good time to use, do your whole town showing how many properties are in MERS and how much money was lost in fees for your County. Share that info with your local paper and Registrar. Or call him and ask him if he knows how much $$$$$ has been lost in unpaid fees.
    Share the knowledge educate your community. WE HAVE POWER IN NUMBERS.

  22. […] Livinglies’s Weblog Filed Under: Foreclosure Law News, Foreclosure News Tagged With: crisis, foreclosure, […]

  23. dan-o, my take is along the lines of what Anonymous said, that it won’t limit your ability to sue, but if in fact a whitewash rules that there’s nothing to see here, no big deal, judges will go along with this train of thought. Why force discovery if the feds and everyone agree the banks are squeaky clean?

  24. so does this settlement extinguish the homeowners claims against these scumbags, or just the states? how could they settle on behalf of indiviual homeowners who will get nothing from the settlement? i hope this isnt the case.

  25. iN Virginia THE FEW ALLEGED FORECLOSURE DEFENSE LAWYERS, ACTUALLY AID THE BANKSTERS INTO GETTING YOU TO DEFAULT, AND THEN THEY ALLOW BY DELAYING ANY ACTION WHILE COLLECTING MONTHLY FEES FOR YOUR HOME TO BE FORECLOSED. iT IS NOT FUNNY TO SEE HOW THESE THIEVES, STEAL YOUR MONEY, DO NOT KEEP YOU INFORMED, DO NOTHING BUT TO SEND YOU INVOICES AND WHEN EVERYTHING IS LOST AFTER THE FORECLOSURE SALE, THEN THEY CHARGE YOU AGAIN TO DEFEND YOU IN THE UNLAWFUL DETAINER WHERE IN VIRGINIA YOU HAVE NO DEFENSE AND THEN THE COURT LEVIES A BOND THAT YOU CANNOT AFFORD.

    IT IS TRULY A RACKET, SOME OF THESE LAWYERS WORK FROM DARK DINGY OFFICES, DO NOT SHOW UP FOR COURT HEARINGS. IN ONE CASE IN PARTICULAR WE TALKED TO THE JUDGE AND OPPOSING COUNCIL AFTER THE CASE WAS LOST AND WE WERE TOLD THE LAWYERS FOR THE DEFENSE NEVER SHOWED UP IN COURT. THESE B,B & B LAWYERS HAD THE AUDACITY TO PUT A BILL FOR SUCH AN APPEARANCE IN FRONT OF THE POOR CLUE LESS CLIENT.

    THIS COUNTRY HAS BECOME A HORNET’S NEST AND SNAKE PIT. THE PEOPLE YOU HIRE TO PROMOTE THE DEFENSE OF YOUR RIGHTS ARE THE SAME THAT COLLUDE AGAINST YOU WITH LACK OF INTEREST, RACKETEERING, FRAUD AND POOR LAWYERING. THESE THIEVES SEEM TO HAVE GONE TO SCHOOL TO LEARN HOW TO CHEAT, LIE AND STEAL FROM THOSE WHO DO NOT KNOW HOW THE LEGAL SYSTEM WORKS, AFTER THEY HAVE MILKED YOU DRY, THEY LOOK AT YOU AND TELL YOU THEY HAVE DONE EVERYTHING POSSIBLE BUT THAT THE COURTS ARE NOT FRIENDLY TO OUR PLEADINGS.

    WHAT A BUNCH OF INCOMPETENT BASTARDS!!!

    BEWARE OF ALL THESE DEFENSE LAWYER IN NORTHERN VIRGINIA, THEY MAKE THE BANKSTERS LOOK LIKE RED RIDDING HOOD!

  26. Which Means They Are Guilty.

  27. E. Toole, Sure. An informed person seeking Quiet Title can force the true owners to come forward or complete a Modification for a reasonable cost. My $20 action was in Small Claims, NY and stimulated an out of court settlement in my favor because BofA didn’t want TO BE IN ANY COURT discussing the real issues. I didn’t win my case and didn’t expect to “win”. I knew that I wasn’t even in the RIGHT COURT! However, I did “get” everything I asked for in the SETTLEMENT: modification back dated to when I applied for modification, fees & charges erased, FICO fixed and a few thousand IN CASH. Statute of limitations in a successful Quiet Title case extends far into the future but what should be the fear? For myself, I’m going back into court for Quiet Title on the basis THAT I WANT TO MAKE SURE I’M PAYING THE RIGHT PERSON and to keep BofA from getting my money that I know (and they know) doesn’t belong to them. If someone appears on the scene who SHOULD BE PAID, no honest person can complain. I don’t believe that is likely to happen but it would be nice if a real resolution to my problem SOMEDAY DID ARISE. A Quiet Title suit is the best step for a poor person to take against the banks during the modification process prior to foreclosure. I did and within 4 months I was no longer a poor person. Taking steps to begin Quiet Title suits should be encouraged and I encourage it. As given in an earlier submission to this site, my inspiration came from a California case. See: http://livinglies.wordpress.com/2011/06/18/more-than-one-way-to-skin-boa-homeowner-gets-judgment-for-modification-ripoff/

    About the Bank Solution. The deal that should be made with the Banks is that (1) Audit the Big Banks. (2) Management resign and accept FDIC replacement. No immunity from criminal prosecution given. We should reasonably expect 7,500 executives to be jailed. (3) Keep the Institutions’ doors open and operating with new management and old regular employees. (4) Write off all the hot derivative paper. Don’t protect any investor in the Bank. Give the new Management 90 days to decide whether to Bank/Trading House Investment or Commercial Banks, as in Glass-Steigle. (5) Suspend all foreclosures and put all displaced former homeowners back in their, or equal to their, houses at fair market value @ 1% interest. Homeowners pay into a public Mortgage bank in each of the States which will become the basis for a whole new home financial system. (See: Bank of N.D. & http://publicbankinginstitute.org/state-info.htm ) (6) Solve Title issues over the next 20 years but grant Quiet Title to owners needing to sell their homes with Limitation Statues allowing for future lien claims from exclusive investors as proof surfaces to be paid by State Public Banks.

  28. Amen Carie

    What a country. The banks reign. We are done

  29. Alice my thought is the states will reset titles as of a certain date, lets say, tge settlement datr; or they will institute a simplified quiet title action scenario where magically the cloud will disappear.

    Besides I haven’t heard that the title companies are very concerned about any of this

    It’s the end of the world as we know it.

  30. John, are these your opinions, or do you have actuals you can bring us up to speed on? I’d rather hear facts about what went down in a particular case than opinions about what is believed. Just sayin’….

  31. Get into Court in an offensive action dealing with Quiet Title issues. The banks run for cover in Court and will negotiate anything you truly insist on. In Court their position of being able to foreclose will come to end. They are willing to settle for a modification when forced into Court. Watch their paperwork and send back all the poison pill documents and they will send you better stuff. Keep telling them that you will go for Quiet Title. Keep telling them that you know that the money came from investors somewhere who have the real power here, not from them who can’t even win Quiet Title Suits. If the Real Investor won’t show for a Quiet Title case, you are MORE DESERVING THATN ANYONE ELSE to get the house. The banks screwed up. Insofar as we get our houses clear of debt the banks will be damaged. If enough of us do it, the Big banks will go down. If we had a real government, they would already be in bankruptcy and Congress would have written law causing us to pay present Market Value into a fund that would underpin a whole new financial system.

  32. …but the sentence SHOULD say: “The banks amassed great
    piles of garbage -– FRAUDULENT “loans” written to people with no demonstrable way to make their payments -– “

  33. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/22/credit-rating-agencies-debt-ceiling-greece_n_907006.html?1311356798

    Credit Rating Agencies, Wrong Before, Now Hold World’s Fate:

    “It was a game, and a lucrative one at that. The banks amassed great
    piles of garbage -– loans written to people with no demonstrable way to make their payments -– and the ratings agencies showed them how to build this trash into sculptures shaped like AAA. For this, they were paid handsomely, because their assent was the key to placing these bonds so widely and driving up their price. The public money managers were in many cases restricted to buying assets with AAA ratings, meaning the agencies had the power to shape the size of the market.

    And when homeowners actually started falling into delinquency en masse, revealing these supposedly sterling bonds as piles of garbage, the credit ratings agencies kept their fees. They fended off the inevitable flurry of lawsuits from aggrieved buyers of the bogus bonds with free speech arguments: They had just issued their opinions, they asserted, and what a shame that they had turned out to be wrong about pretty much everything. It was only a coincidence that their consistent errancy had enabled the people who paid them for their lousy opinions to become stupendously rich themselves.

    The Wall Street traders kept their money, too, and the smart ones made more by buying up distressed bonds that were close to worthless during the worst of the financial crisis, flipping them for profit later on. The only people who actually got hurt by all this were, well, everyone else: taxpayers, homeowners, savers, retirees, working people.”

  34. http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2010/04/family_files_lawsuit_against_b.html

    “They believe that Deutsche, as trustee of Ameriquest Mortgage Securities Inc., didn’t realize the house, repossessed in 2006, was not subject to foreclosure.
    It is a nightmare that has happened across the nation as the economy tanked, the couple’s attorney, Carlin Phillips, said at a press conference.
    “It’s like the Wild West right now in the foreclosure industry,” he said.

    Deutsche, however, said it played no role in the dispute, and that the alleged actions came under the purview of American Home Mortgage Serving, which took over service of the loan from Ameriquest.

    Deutsche acts as a trustee and has an administrative role in such cases, but has “no beneficial ownership stake or interest in the underlying mortgage loans,” spokesman John Gallagher said.”

    “NO BENEFICIAL OWNERSHIP STAKE OR INTEREST IN THE UNDERLYING MORTGAGE LOANS.”

    YET THEY CONTINUE TO STEAL HOUSES—HOW???

  35. @venu—the “losing documents” ploy is/was all choreographed—just like everything else the banks did—so that they can foreclose and get a free house (which will just sit there empty and wasted until some fraudster figures out a way to sell it to some unsuspecting buyer), while “pretending” to help you…and then blame YOU for not sending documents in a timely fashion. Then you are dragged into court trying to fight what you know is fraud—and they count on you not really being able to effectively represent yourself, and of course not being able to afford an attorney—who probably doesn’t really know how to win the case anyway even if you COULD afford him/her. So, they’ve got it all wrapped up. They have left us to fend for ourselves in the foreclosure BLOODBATH…while they “wag the dog” with all kinds of other things in the news, while we die in the streets…what a country.

  36. “And just how will any settlement cure the corruption of title chains in 100 million real estate transactions…” Lol. That is what I find so interesting about this settlement business. Like those problems are just going to disappear? They can do all the settling they want but the title problems aren’t going away. What genius came up with that idea.

  37. The attorney generals have already abdicated their responsibilities. They are now negotiating their payday. Perhaps it is time for class action suits against the AGs.

  38. I contacted the Wis State AG’s office about the fraudulent documents
    that Wells Fargo used , along with their attorneys handling the case.
    Their attorneys used Robosigned papers fabricated by their lawyers. wells Fargos sent me back a letters stating it was their position to use fabricated documents in a judicial state. The Wi. AG said they do not represent incividuals I would have to file my oun suit. So I did. I want to file a Quiet Title Action. Now these articles are going to grant immunity to the people I am fighting without even investigating the cases where poeple have lost their homes to fabricated documents. We got burned in these foreclosures. The money is going where. How can the State AG ignore the State Cobstitution and the Legislature and the Governer?
    Stan
    Wis

  39. Banks are liable to make people run around for nothing by telling lies such as documents were not received. No one can do this and is a private indivudual wee to do this he or she will get sued.

    Call your Senator and request to bring a law to force banks which did not modify mortgages by telling lies after lies.

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