LIVINGLIES: SERVICERS LYING ABOUT DENIAL OF MODIFICATION BY INVESTORS

COMBO Title and Securitization Search, Report, Documents, Analysis & Commentary COMBO Title and Securitization Search, Report, Documents, Analysis & Commentary

INVESTORS NEVER CONTACTED

SERVICERS REPORT THAT INVESTORS DENIED MODIFICATION

Hundreds of Judges across the country have put foreclosures into a waiting pattern demanding that the parties complete the HAMP modification procedure before they rule on the foreclosure or any defenses and counterclaims. The attorney for the pretender lender usually comes back with what Judge Redfield Baum, Federal Bankruptcy Judge in phoenix, called a haphazard array of answers usually amounting to a a report that the “investors turned down the modification.” IN FACT, THE INVESTORS WERE NEVER CONTACTED NOR WERE THEIR REPRESENTATIVES OR ATTORNEYS, MANY OF WHOM ARE SUING THE INVESTMENT BANKERS FOR SELLING THEM BOGUS SECURITIES — THE EQUIVALENT OF WHAT WE HAVE CALLED HERE A “HOLOGRAPHIC IMAGE OF AN EMPTY PAPER BAG.”

ACCORDING TO DIRECT INFORMATION RECEIVED FROM INVESTORS AND OFFICERS REPRESENTING DEUTSCH WHICH IS OFTEN USED AS THE NAME OF THE “TRUSTEE” FOR THE INVESTORS, THE ENTIRE PROCESS IS CONTAINED WITHIN THE SERVICER’S ORGANIZATION. This means that the servicer is pretending to go through a modification procedure,  after acknowledging that the servicer has no stake in the obligation, note or mortgage, and after putting the borrower through hoops and ladders, lost papers, resubmissions, and a variety of other stall tactics then reports back, often directly to the Court that the investors turned down the modification.

Our best information here is that no investor has EVER been contacted regarding a modification or settlement of ANY mortgage at any time. Based on our information no such attempt was ever made or intended and the lawyers who made those representations in Court knew it, inasmuch as it was always the intent of the servicer to create the illusion of a modification process rather than act as the go-between in an actual settlement process.

Further, based upon the information we have obtained directly from people involved in the securitization process, even Deutsch Bank, the most often used name as “Trustee” of asset backed securities pools, does not have a single Trustee from their Trust Department involved, nor are these deals considered to be within the scope of duties of their Trust department. To the contrary, senior officers of Deutsch confirm that they neither have the duty nor the power to approve modifications or settlements and that they have virtually no contact with investors. It appears that the ONLY thing that “Trustees” actually do is a collect a fee for pretending to be a fiduciary (Trustee) much like the loan originator with the homeowner was paid a fee to pretend to be a lender.

Courts are not pleased when they are the used as a vehicle for fraud. They are especially not pleased when large law firms and large financial institutions in whom the Court reposes a certain amount of trust, perpetrate such a fraud. Lawyers and pro se litigants are now asking for proof that the investors were presented with a modification and proof that the investors turned down the modification. The attorneys for the pretender lenders are stone-walling for the same reason that they stone-walled on the mortgage documentation — no such evidence exists because nothing was ever done.

This was probably the reason why Levitin called for elimination of the servicers from the modification or settlement process and installing a government sponsored agency to act as the go-between. The servicers and pretender lenders are fighting this proposal tooth and nail because if it went through, the entire lie would unravel. It would become obvious that many “trusts” never existed or do not now exist, many investors have already elected their remedies and the the pool was dissolved, and the ownership of obligation, note and mortgage has never been transferred.

32 Responses

  1. DT… your case is an outrage.

  2. Not directly on point here ..but persuasive .
    Some interesting points of how OUR gov set up OUR future, facts our history books somehow omitted.
    http://e-library.net/They-Own-It-All-Including-You-By-Means-of-Toxic-Currency-__ebooks17415.htm
    Take no ones word for it, do the research yourself.

  3. E. Tolle,
    My Dad, Vietnam War Vet., drafted at 18 served 2 years mostly over in nam, came back in 70, then 15 years later in 85 he bought his Mother’s house from her because he had got a job making good money working for the Federal Government at the USPS, where he has worked and still works for the past 26 years now, but none of this means anything to Judges. You show them a notarized Trustee’s Deed Upon Sale, that was recorded and certified under a different last name and after the UD was filed, that shows a purported Trustee’s sale was conducted by an unlicensed Corp. who was never was the Trustee, but nonetheless somehow managed to allegedly sell the house to the highest bidder to satisfy the total amount of debt outstanding under and secured by the Deed of Trust, which also happened to be the amount of the highest bid for (I know this for certain because both amounts had the identical amounts of) “[blank]” and “[blank]”, and when showing this judge that the sale was obviously “irregular”, it showing to have been purportedly sold for nothing to satisfy an obligation of nothing said “oh that doesn’t matter” and I asked “what do you mean it doesn’t matter? It says right on the face that “$0” was owed and “$0″ was paid at the purported auction.” and he replied “Yeah all they or anybody needs is this instrument right here >(referring to the TDUS), what’s written or not on it, and any other recorded or not recorded instruments isn’t important”.

    So apparently it’s neither here nor there whether there was ever even a valid Deed of Trust and power of sale that secured a certain sum outstanding and owing, because all that’s irrelevant and all someone needs to take someone else’s house is ‘a piece of paper’ and its contents are not material.

    Now we can see why California has the largest pension fund (CalPERS) in the world. Because they (Judges, court staff, Recorders office, sheriff etc..) offer the best Foreclosure and Eviction services in the world, best to accommodate “No Hassle”, “Free From Any Risk” and “Pillage & Plunder With Impunity” policies for the servicer (Litton Loan Servicing LP) who is owned by the same Wall Street Bank (Goldman Sachs) that the State of California (CalPERS) has invested over $1.3 billion with, and also underwrites the financing for the State’s municipal bonds.

    Because what Judge in their right mind would be dumb enough to rule against the company that not only held their life savings and future retirement in its hands, but also brokered all of the State’s public financing (which is how judges are paid nowadays, NOT from taxes)? Even if the proof was obvious that the company broke the law and deprived people of their rights?

    But you see, this is exactly why it was necessary for the Judicial branches of Governments to be completely “Independent” of ever having to rely on anyone for anything, so they could faithfully fulfill their sworn obligations to impartially administering, honoring and enforcing the ‘written laws’ passed by Congress. Because once you’ve seen and looked at it from this perspective you should be able to realize that all these Judges are summarily no better than all of the “Robo-Signers” and “Robo-Notaries”, because they were and are signing all the documents they’re signing ALL FOR the SAME REASON:

    BECAUSE THE COMPANY THAT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR CUTTING THEM THEIR PAYCHECKS WANTS THEM TO!

    There is no “Class War”, “Main Street” will and is throwing America out into “the Street” in a heartbeat just so they can appease”Wall Street”

    Welcome to the:
    “Home of the Fee$, and Land of the $lave$”

    ***Make sure you Handsomly Tip the nearest Bankster close to you …. OR ELSE!***

  4. 20,000 military members, vets faced foreclosure in 2010

    By Gregg Zoroya, USA TODAY

    More than 20,000 veterans, active-duty troops and reservists who took out special government-backed mortgages lost their homes last year — the highest number since 2003.

    The rate of foreclosure filings in 2010 among 163 zip codes located near military bases rose 32% over 2008, according to RealtyTrac, a foreclosure research firm. This compares with a 2010 increase in foreclosures filings nationally of 23% over 2008.
    The housing crisis has hit military families particularly hard in part because of transfers and the loss of civilian jobs left behind by reservists.
    About 12,000 military families applied to the Pentagon’s expanded Homeowners Assistance Program. It makes up most of the difference in price for servicemembers who must transfer and sell their homes for less than they owe, or buys their houses outright.

    Home of the Brave and land of the foreclosed! Death to Wall street! Death to TBTF!

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    IF YOU HAVE A MERS WHICH STANDS FOR MORTGAGE ELECTRONIC REGISTRATION SERVICES WHICH WOULD BE IN MOST CASES ON THE 1ST PAGE OF YOUR MORTGAGE PARAGRAPH C. CALL KIM THOMAS OR GEORGE BABCOCK AT 401-274-1905 AND GET RELIEVE FROM YOUR PROBLEM!

  6. To use the old proverb “Sh#t will eventually float”
    A floater

  7. We go from being deadbeats to victims. we go from trying to pull a fast one. To exposing the Banks as trying to pull a fast one on the Judge.

    NEVER AGAIN

  8. Ian

    Fannie/Freddie records are completely out of order — not only do records not comply with “lender” records — many loans was intercepted from Fannie/Freddie based on insurance fraud. But, then Fannie/Freddie would invest in the very intercepted loans- by investing in the bank securities.

    neidermeyer

    Not visible anywhere — and they use this in court — know you will NEVER gain access to this information — deregulation — and government is doing nothing.

    Loans are removed from trusts 1) by repurchase 2) after default by derivative swaps — or direct sale by bank of collection rights.
    IF AHMSI claims to be servicing — they are doing it for WIlbur – distressed debt buyer — ONLY.

    But, they make mistakes — have to be alert to their mistakes.

  9. This is one of the most important editorial’s by Neil Garfield.

    He is showing the Judges that the arguement of not paying the mortgage is now moot.

    The argument now becomes was the so called investor informed about the loan mod or Short Sale negotiations. Another big Fraud. CO MINGLING OF FUNDS. Here Dan Edstrom can show that the Investor actually thinks everything is as usual. The bank is making the payments but doesnt have the principal. PONZI.

    Be strong and courageous

  10. Once again Neil, YOU ARE WRONG.
    The ‘investors’ ie. the Public Employee Pension Funds know about everything that is going on. You act as almost if ‘investors’ were oblivious to the fact that THEY BOUGHT THOSE (purported) MBS NOT TO HELP AMERICANS STAY IN THEIR HOMES OR MAINTAIN ECONOMIC STABILITY, THEY BOUGHT THEM SO THEY COULD MAKE HEFTY PROFITS GAINED FROM USURIOUS INTEREST RATES THROWN ONTO THE BACKS OF “REAL” AMERICAN WORKERS & PRODUCERS (not government self-servicers), then letting the extortionate racket take its course by allowing and permitting (in fact in many cases actually using their positions as Federal Judges to make it faster and easier) for servicers to foreclose on literally EVERYONE with NO INTERFERENCE from the GOVERNMENT because they EXPECT TO GET THE HIGHEST RETURN ON THEIR INVESTMENTS and the last thing on their minds are the rights of Americans which they have betrayed by betting against us with hopes to profit from it.

    What do think that with their status’ as 1) the Executive, Legislative and Judicial Branches of our Government and 2) the presumed holders and beneficiaries to the purportedly outstanding mortgage debt that they would have little or no power over Banks, Servicers, Trustees and Attorneys in charge of managing the whole when, how and why People get their sole assets and only places of shelter RIPPED from their lives?

    They (‘investors’ aka Judges, Sheriff’s Dep.s and all other unproductive self-serving Government employees) are constantly avoiding in the participation of solving the problem or at least they are trying as HARD as they can to conceal from the public the fact of their two-fold authority over the subject and advancing the financial authority to transcend beyond and breach their contractual and legal powers and duties which are THE SOLE PURPOSE FOR WHICH THEY WERE INSTITUTED. The greater majority of people don’t recognize and realize the significant issues of loyalty and integrity that arise when, take for instance the Judiciary which was built securely as an INDEPENDENT branch not subject to any of the social, political and economic pressures and influences of society (or even the People and their co-branches) so they could FAIRLY and IMPARTIALLY enforce the Law, was then permitted to allow itself to become so FINANCIALLY and in other ways DEPENDENT on “Banks” and other non-productive Corporations to the point of 1) where practically ALL Judges have mortgages on their homes which they’re NOT supposed to.* And they all have ‘pensions’ and other various ‘financial investments’ amounting to dependencies that are exploited affecting how and the way they DECIDE EVERY SINGLE CASE coming before it and which are repugnant to the enumerated powers, responsibilities and securities of US Const. Art. III and other provisions within the Constitution. Which they would be as they say “void ab initio” for their repugnance to the Constitution.

    The following is a small section from an article over at ForeclosureBlues which evidences the betrayal of loyalty and integrity of our Government because of their own self-interested prejudices arising from issues (that show why certain things like the aforementioned are prohibited) which run as conflicts in, with, and against their ability and willingness to fulfill their contractual duties and obligations to the American People, whom are the SOLE purpose for the creation of and their positions in office.
    (~~You All Remember who BlackRock is right?~~)

    “Brian Beades, a spokesman for New York-based BlackRock, declined to comment. The company, the world’s largest money manager, said Nov. 3 that Bank of America, which own a 34 percent stake in BlackRock, plans to sell at least 34.5 million of those shares.

    ‘Taken Aback’

    Bank of America’s lawyers also wrote that they were “taken aback” that the investors were attacking Countrywide “for not foreclosing on homeowners quickly enough and for making loan modifications that may keep borrowers in their homes.””

    https : // foreclosureblues.wordpress.com/2010/11/06/bank-of-america-lawyers-demand-names-in-mortgage-bond-fight-with-investors/

    The important part I want to emphasize on is, BlackRock, who holds the pensions and retirements of every Federal worker in the US of A including every Judge whom chose to ‘invest’ their savings into predatory and fraudulent mortgage loans (because they saw it as a prospective profitability opportunity)……

    ” “were attacking Countrywide “for not foreclosing on homeowners quickly enough and for making loan modifications that may keep borrowers in their homes.” ”

    It is this very type of reserved hostility and resentment towards the People of whom they (Governments) are created and instituted, is the very reason for which they are prohibited from engaging in such collusive actions contrary to, and in conflict with their duties and obligations with us. Because a Government only interested in protecting interests that would undermine and seek to abridge and nullify the rights and interests of People who it was meant to Govern is no Government at all.
    Indeed, it is the largest and most powerful criminal organization domestically located within the Peoples’ land and the greatest and most dangerous immanent threat to the fate of the Peoples’ lives as well as their future and the future of their nation.

    *If you dig deep enough in our countries history you’ll find that the ‘offices which they shall hold during “good behavior” and commissions they shall receive as payment which shall not be diminished’ was meant to include ‘free-hold estates’ aka FREE HOUSES (I know imagine that huh?) that weren’t ever even subject to any kind of property tax, let alone a mortgage.

  11. I have long suspected that when I was turned down for the “modification” because the investor didn’t think it was in their best interest, they were lying. Knowing it and PROVING it are two different beasts. I for one will continue fighting these people because eventually they WILL and DO slip up and the truth peaks through.

  12. Anonymous Said: The servicers are either servicing for themselves — or for distressed debt buyers. Debt buyers are not really “investors” — as there is no longer any security investment.
    **********************************************
    You are exactly right ,, and that is why AHMSI is a prime target .. they are my “servicer” in name only … but we all know it is just a debt collector …

    My question is how did they buy rights to collect?? My loan is listed in a “trust” so WF sold it/was paid for it ,, how did it revert to WF/Sand Canyon so it could then be transferred to the “new” AHMSI under Wilbur Ross … no transfers are documented anywhere I can see … would it be visible in some of the WF/AHMSI/Sand Canyon BK docs?

  13. The servicers are debt collectors just like the debt collectors on credit card debt. They need to be removed from the loan mods, because they do not own the loan on your house. They are servicers and do not have the right to foreclose on your home.

    What you have to keep in mind is the following: if you committed fraud even BEFORE the closing, everything downstream is tainted. Because it is tainted from the beginning, you have to keep committing MORE FRAUD to cover up the previous fraud. They probably think that if you get caught for just one fraud, you might as well gamble that you will not get caught with all the fraud and keep on keeping on. FRAUDFRAUDFRAUDFRAUD!
    Burmese8@yahoo.com

  14. My e-mail address is: joan@banktechnology.com

    (note I am NOT working for the banks despite that name in the address!…..I hate the banks!*)

    I was told (in an on line e-mail from B of A that CIG HFI funded the loan)

  15. Joan Vor- CIG HFI 1st Lien Mortgage

    YES, I have written proof that CIG HFI is an internal department within BofA. also a Bankruptcy case from another borrower.

    How do you know it was table funded? Post your email and we can exchange info.

  16. Sorry for being so cynical, but after almost four years in this battle in Virginia,and other states, I have a very low opinion of the OTHER SIDE!!!!!

    Just like they believe we are less than worthless and dirty scum.

    To me it is a matter of survival and even of national security. When I see that over 43,000,000 need food stamps in the Richest Country in the World, then we can be sure we are being fed a total lie about the American dream.

    To all those who have either lost, losing or about to go through the drama of fighting for your home and your almost non existent rights, I hope for the best, but you need to be strong and never relent.

  17. Hi, “help”

    We have a loan in foreclosure.The loan was table funded by B of A, with the current “investor” being CIG HFI. Do you have something in writing wherein B of A admits to being one and the same as CIG HFI?
    Thanks ahead of time for the help.

  18. Dear Jan,

    I agree with you 100%, but most people are so ashamed that they are in financial stress that they try to actually even lie to themselves about this.

    But once you break the ice and get the other people exited about doing something meaningful, the results may be very positive.

    And as in Egypt Protests, you can never trust the other side, the other side always have a sinister agenda, and even if they do not have an agenda, you must fight as if they did.

    You can never trust the other side lawyers, their employees, their letters, their phone calls, etc.

    They do not care if you are homeless or if you have a horrible illness. They do not care if the lie to you, if the cheat you out of your money, dignity and health. They just do not care.

    They will stand in court as they have done for years and lie with a straight face, and then go to BOA, WELS, CITi, etc to cash their checks.

  19. Dear Help,

    They are always going to fudge reality to lead you on and get what they need to get, your title and you out of the way.

    That is the way they are now using the notes endorsed in Blank. Knowing most judges are not going to go against the UCC, they are using the Notes they never transferred and that they are in fact holding illegally, they are coming to court stating they are the holders and the owners of the note, when in reality they have no stake on the Note, they were in many cases already paid off in full, plus all the side bets they got paid for, TARP, bail out gift money and all the insurance policies they had placed on their bets.

    Since they believe Capitalism is of a rapacious nature, they do not care if they already have been paid, they may not even realize it, but who cares when all the decisions are made based on the employees next career move.

    If the loans for the most part were pre sold and the need for a hair cut stake was removed by this practice and the notes had been fully satisfied on the settlement table to the tune of in some cases 103% of the loan amount, how can we prove the the judges that these people coming to court with illegally concealed, acquired, and probably fraudulently reproduced notes with blank endorsements?

    How can we prove these private label securitizations, that were never placed on the books of the banksters, side deals, most likely worked through overseas investors and who knows the money may have been procured from illicit means (drug trafficking!!!) ???

  20. to Debi J:

    You misunderstand how this works. Deutsche Bank, and its cute invention “Deutsche Bank National Trust Americas,” are quite capable of fending off a class-action suit. The costs are manageable and the attorneys know how to do that; even if they lose, and that is by no means certain, the costs are programmed within their business model.

    What the business model does NOT contain is an army of individual suits, each of which requires attorneys on retainer to go and defend. Yes, they have pre-formatted Court Answers in their word processors, but every case remains different and requires custom tailoring. further, when plaintiffs file Motions for Order to Show Cause, and do so by the thousands, then DB and DBNT start to bleed. This pond-scum only dies when you bleed it with a thousand cuts (or 100,000 cuts).

    Join up with two or three others and file a local combined action. When DB has to defend 100,000 such suits, then they will be forced to change their ways. Remember: all the criminality of the banks is being done by only about 3,000 people all living in NYC, Long Island, Northern Counties of NJ, Westchester, and Greenwich, all of one identifiable ethnic group. When they get buried in lawsuits, then the criminals are brought to heel.

  21. ANONYMOUS- over on Fraud Digest site, under news, a report on fannie mae lawyers, operating as MERS officers, filing double (2) assignments of mortgage in order to conceal fannie’s ownership of the mortgages being foreclosed. What do you make of this? It reportedly involves mostly Countrywide loans. Fraud Digest is a good site run by Lynn Szymoniak, an attorney of some repute.

  22. BofA stated in a letter about my loan modification:

    * “your loan modification was denied due the Investor/Insurance Company.”

    * BofA representatives on the phone told me multiple times that my loan was sold and they could not disclose the investor, it was private.

    * Then, with persistence, Several BofA and BAC Home Loans Servicing employees told me the loan was sold and the investor was CIG HFI 1st Lien Mortgage.

    * BofA also represented CIG HFI 1st Lien Mortgage as the Creditor for loans in written letters.

    * Then in court, after filing a TRO for lack of standing, after a year BofA represented that CIG HFI stood for Corporate Investment Group and Held For Investment…and CIG and HFI are internal departmetns of Bank of America and the loan was not sold.

    HUMM…Bofa tells me the loans was denied a loan mod due to investors, tells me the name of investors on the phone and the calls were recorded by me and then they provide a copy of the NOTE during a RESPA QWR response that is stamped “sold with our recourse” singed by the BofA VP in blank.

    Hard to fight City hall and the well funded banks!

  23. I’m with you, debj! If anyone gets the house free, it should be the homeowner.

    Also, I want to know the WHEREABOUTS of my packages of confidential financial information! Against my wishes, the servicer required me to resubmit a new package four times because it kept getting “lost!” Just where is the BLACK HOLE I read about on this site from a whistleblower? It is in India where NO privacy laws protect us?

    The servicer violated the federal privacy act in its reckless handling of personal identifiers–it required all of them: name, address, unpublished phone numbers, SSN, income source and amount, monthly expenses, list of other assets, bank account numbers, and even a federal form to authorize its retrieving tax returns!

  24. Eule

    Try Geico they have just opened up in Florida. They will insure what you want. Over the internet for $220K they wanted $700 a year with a $500 hurricaine ded. The bank wanted $1000 a month.
    You don’t need to mention you have a dispute with the lender.. Your title insurance covers that. Find out from the title company that did your closing for a copy of the wire transfer to see where the money came from.
    Sincerely
    Stan
    Racine Wi
    Kissimmee, Fl.

  25. Debi J , most of the classaction you will not get a judgement , and most of the money will properly go to the lawyers. I wait for HELOC Judgement already more than one year ,and I still believe there will be no judgement . You also have to know , that CHASE , CORELOGIC and Deutsche Bank work together , and I will proof it .
    I try to get my 30-40 grand together to kick CHASE on my own .

    Now I have a new problem in Florida.I need a new Insurance because People’s will not extend the contract. The new one , whoever it is , will not cover the sinkholes anymore. Next point , CHASE AVM appraisal shows $ 126,000.00 ($ 250,000.00 = 2 years ago. )
    The Insurance told me , I have to insure for $ 250,000.00 even it is not worth , because if the insurance has to pay a claim , the new Home cost that much .On the other end , I will not get a refinancing , because I am under water .

  26. If it is not necessary to produce the note in a non-judicial state, as stated in the case in Nevada where the judge reversed his ruling allowing BofA foreclosures to continue, then why are there notes?

  27. Arizona Consumer Complaint Office
    The link as follows:

    http://www.azag.gov/consumer/complaintform.html

    If your neighborhood has been decimated and deflated with one foreclosure after another then be pro-active and fill out the form. Explain that this is nothing but destruction of property and you refuse to pay for the crimes committed by Wallstreet, the Banks, and the Servicer. .

  28. Why can’t we all get together and bring a class action for the homeowners against Deutsche? They don’t own the notes. They are murderers and thieves. If the loans weren’t securitized and the loan has been swapped out in a credit default swap or mortgage insurance paid it off and then the over collateralization and the insurer paid for fraud or default or on a trigger from the pool — do they seriously think they are entitled to the house too? How about the title….or doesn’t that matter any more either. Fraud is fraud. It wasen’t about a free house, but you know what? It is now……Plus damages and news coverage too. My goal— to shed the light and the word and help as many people understand the devils game and with the Lords help; how to fight it. Debi

  29. Arizona Consumer Complaint Office
    The link as follows:

    http://www.azag.gov/consumer/complaintform.html

    If you neighborhood has been decimated and deflated with one foreclosure after another then be pro-active and fill out the form. Explain that this is nothing but destruction of property and you refuse to pay for the crimes committed by Wallstreet, the Banks, and the Servicer. .

  30. Going back to Levitin’s testimony — questioning by Sen. Bennet goes something like this:

    Levitin: foreclosures less costly — or more profitable.

    Bennet: “interest as far as investors?

    Levitin: “servicers own financial interests — servicers financial interests do not match investors.”

    The question is — who are servicers now servicing for?? If they were still servicing for investors — investors would be screaming bloody murder that “servicers financial interests do not match investors.”

    The servicers are either servicing for themselves — or for distressed debt buyers. Debt buyers are not really “investors” — as there is no longer any security investment.
    .

  31. Neal, let’s not forget all the monthly loan mod fees that the servicer collects pretending to offer a mod. All the while dual tracking it and setting them up for foreclosure.

    Then those payments simply vanish never to be seen again.

    Mike

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