by Wes Barnard

HAMP to me is a trap. The banks actually cannot prove that you owe them anything since they have lost the documents and are now busy forging new ones.

HAMP is just another refinance gimmick to establish once again that you owe the banks mortgage payments. If you push the banks for validation of the debt and they are unable to do so, that approach seems brighter than pushing the banks to refinance the debt.

How about you?

EDITOR’S COMMENT: I AGREE WITH WES. Some Judges are using HAMP to buy more time before they have to rule on facts and law that are unfamiliar to them, so they force people into modification the way they do with mediation. Judges like that because a good percentage of the time a forced mediation results in a settlement. But with HAMP it is different. As Judge Baum in Phoenix has said on record, HAMP approvals seem to be haphazard.

The essential point Wes is making is that by merely entering into the process without objection you might be admitting the status of the party as a lender, holder of the note or someone with authority to foreclose. Thus you might be waiving your essential defenses, and forced to wait until the property goes to auction before you can raise wrongful foreclosure etc.

The real problem is that you can’t settle with someone who doesn’t have a claim against you. To the Judge that sounds like gibberish. So you have to be clear that they are not saying there isn’t some claim here, although you can’t determine the value of it, you are just saying that if you are going to spend your time going through HAMP, the party with whom you are being ordered to engage must be the decider.


If the answer is yes, then you have the right party to settle or modify the mortgage. If the answer is no, you already know that they are going to tell you at the end of the deal that you didn’t qualify. That makes it look like there is something wrong with the homeowner when the real fact is that the party communicating the rejection of HAMP modification or settlement didn’t have the authority to do anything anyway.

The proof of the pudding is what most of the Judges are coming to realize — nearly all modifications are rejected. They accept a handful to make it look like they have the authority and they do whatever they need to do behind the scenes to make it look real. But when all is said and done, even if with a principal reduction or principal correction, if the parties do not have a court order declaring the status of the chain of title, the modification or settlement is going to cause title problem down the road when the homeowner goes to sell or refinance the property.

If they encounter problems and they don’t have title insurance that covers this situation they are going to come back looking for the lawyer they were once so happy with and ask him or her to fix it — but they can’t fix it without a Judge signing an order that is a declaration of the rights of parties and the status of the title, and a certified copy of the Final Order is then recorded in county property recording office.

The moral of the story is that you can’t finesse title. You either have it or you don’t. But you can finesse people and Judges are people too.

18 Responses


  2. Exactly right, HAMP = Homeowners Assholes Manhandled Promptly.

    They not only saw you coming, they saw you going.

  3. HAMP is nothing but for the dishonest banks, toget accurate pre-bankruptcy financial statements- so they can sue you for deficiency later and know where your non-exempt assets are to take, to satisfy their alleged phony ‘deficiency’. You will lose your 2nd car, your boat, most of your furniture, and your 2nd free and clear property!

    Any settlement offer should only be made in letter form, and only addressed to the Real Party in Interest, which should include YOUR desired full principle correction amount, with your desired 2% interest over 30 years fixed, without any financial information attached.

    The Real Party in Interest, if any, can either accept or reject the settlement letter, period.

    They won’t, because it exposes them to lawsuit for the regulatory and fraud violations.

    The criminal bank’s cover-up continues, along with criminal Congress’s approving nods.

    The Ponzi Banks and Government needs you, divested of your assets now – so you work till your 83, to replace these lost assets, and pay them off instead, all the while earning more ‘taxable income’, to pay them all that money, interest, and buy new assets.

    That’s why we have “HAMP” –
    Homeowners Aiding More Ponzies.

    It is the Bank’s unneccesary “Confessional”. Don’t go there!

  4. Yes. HAMP is a TRAMP. Better put, HAMP is a TRAP. Better? Congress just keeps playing the fool’s game.
    Anyone catching on?

  5. To add to leapfrog’s comment — “you better watch out” —
    “once you cross the border — you may never return again.”

    Hah!! — watch out — and show border was trap. Trap– that is always the intent.

    usedkarguy -demand the IDENTITY of the current creditor — or mod is contractually void.

  6. and I would opine that “dual-track” (concurrent foreclosure and modification-maybe-land) amounts to extortion. I’m buttoned up since my mod is pending. But other avenues remain.

  7. To Okiefrommuskogee, And if you owe more on your loan then $726,000.00 then they can’t offer HAMP anyway. Check your area for loan limits.

  8. To Okiefrommuskogee, Unless your state has a civil code calling for “intended 3rd party beneficiary” for government contracts then HAMP has “no right of private action”.So, when the bank strings you along with
    deliberate false promise’s and denies you at the last hour you have no claim unless you negotiate on your own and they break a actionable agreement in writing you may have a claim. One mention of federal HAMP move’s your claim to fed court from your state court.

  9. John,

    Please better explain what grounds of a suit in state court is for your own mod?

  10. Jeeze – is there anyway my comments won’t be moderated continuously? what is the problem?

  11. HAMP is a trap….get your own modification. Negotiate in writing, when they offer HAMP refuse for better terms. This way you can sue in state court for breach.

  12. This is exactly what they did to me, they gave me an in-house mod. 3 years ago in the name of a “securitized trust”, but only took assignment of the mortgage last year, when they filed the summons and complaint.
    I hope that this is going to now cause them some major problems because when they file the affidavit of amount owed, they will be going off the mod numbers, but hopefully the judge will see that either the assignment was a forgery or that their is no way to honor the mod, since they didnt take assignment until 2 years later. And he will rule that the mod is invalid.
    Then where do they go from there? we shall see.

  13. I guess what you get is a half-a%&*d HAMP. If I do a HAMP and they agree to it, I will be making sure I still have my rights to sue them later. They will probably breach the HAMP loan mod. I will also ask them to give me in written form, a document that says my title is clear and a Satisfaction of Mortgage can be submitted. Hey, good luck on that one. AHMSI is one of the most reprehensible, crooked mortgage servicers out there. Debt collection law needs to be beefed up big time.

  14. If you are able to keep up with Swarm the Banks there was a story about how just applying for HAMP hurts your credit score.

  15. Well written – this is exaclty the kind of reporting we need on HAMP, universally known to be a complete failure with further means to exploit borrowers.

  16. this is definitely my position in this==it is a trap and a way to get around the chain of title problem. My own experience was I got played along for a Hamp, then the note inexplicably got transferred to BOA/BAC for servicing (later I found out it was because it was really a Countrywide “pool” loan). When I sued suddenly they wanted to “hamp it” as I call it. I kept asking for proof of ownership of the note, produce the note etc etc and all they kept saying was provide us more info (through their lawyers because I had now sued for qt/dc under mo law). When they had denied it a third time (for failure to produce everything they asked for or because I had refused their financial assistance or because I di not qualify but they would nnot say why) and were still asking for paperwork and they still had not produced a thing I had asked for, I finally told the lawyer for BOA until I get what I asked for I will not produce another piece of paperwork–they have quit asking me to modify because we are still arguing aboutwhether it belongs in fed or state court and the case is currently split. I think even their own lawyer got disgusted although she did not say a thing. I do know someone in my Keller Williams office who finally got his HAMP approved and decided to take it rather than fight it. He has some title issues but he wanted to get it done with and the HAMP mod paprwork I saw for him seemed ok–it did not give up claims which I thought it might, and it was a 2,3,4,5 percent loan over the next four years and then was at 5 for the remainder of the term (until 2036) on a $451,000 loan. He has a second he is still negotiating and I am concerned that if he lets that default they will call the first note and he is screwed but the guy seems to feel he can do this. I still think they are a scam. My titlle is totally screwed up per Chicago Title preliminary title report. When I kept pushing for the note they gave up which tells you they don’t have it.

  17. The more we expose the judges to the way the banks really work the better off we are.

    The more we show the judges how unreasonable the other side is. We tried everything and the other side is being unreasonable we have more of a chance.


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