Fixing the Principal Deficit Problem

I’m not sure I deserve credit for this entry from Richard Widmark, but it has a great deal of merit. It should be expanded and I’ll publish it. His is a bare outline with not much to show the reasoning behind it. Yet I see glimmers of a solution if anyone would listen.

The presenting issue is that none of the homes are worth the paper that was written and signed. We all know that. But we also know that prices vary from place to place. And we know the appraisal fraud was worse in some places than in others. So without establishing another federal agency to go through each closing, how do you fix this? Richard sees a possible way. He gives me credit but I’m not sure why.

Summarizing what I see in Richard’s comment you start with each homeowner using a “stated value” of their home that they come up with. The program could be further refined by use of appraisers, but his point is well taken — if the homeowners can be kept honest we instantly have a correction to reality pricing and that is the only correct starting point for this nonsense.

The offset for the homeowner is that if they state the value too low, then the government or anyone else could come in and buy it. The homeowner is out. The more they want to keep the home, the higher the value they place on the home. In theory this makes sense and while neo-cons would be quick to point out moral hazard, I would be just as quick to point out that any moral hazard would be a drop in the bucket compared to what Wall Street did with these “values.”

A new obligation, note and mortgage is created at the real fair market value of the property. I would argue that the best stimulus for the economy is to use 80% loan to value since the prices are still going down anyway. The creation of a feeling of equity, even if it wasn’t all that solid would do more to prop up the confidence in the economy and confidence in a government that is dealing with reality.

The new loan would be funded. The proceeds would go to anyone who could prove they actually lost money on this deal starting with the purchase of mortgage bonds and ending with the new loan and the new valuation. I would argue that the investors should be required to use their “credit standing” if they can prove it, to hold a portion of the new loan rather than receiving funding from it. The funding would come from conventional lending, especially if you use 80% loan to value and conventional underwriting standards. I would argue that it is in the best interest of the country to make some accommodation (perhaps a lease) to those homeowners who cannot afford to own the property even if the terms are drastically turned in their favor.

Government guarantee programs, as opposed to actual funding will cause actual liquidity in the housing market and allow these deals to go forward and the regular purchase and sale of homes to go forward using a higher degree of certainty about prices. The actual out-of-pocket government cost would be minimal.

But here is the rub. If we don’t adopt the approach used in Germany which was to create and maintain jobs at all costs, then there won’t be anyone to pay rent, mortgage payments or anything else. Housing prices have long been known to vary directly with median income, which in this country has been going down for over thirty years. The drop in median income was “offset” with credit, but we all know how that turned out. So the only way we are going to see our country survive as anything more than a banana republic is by raising median income through jobs programs, new business stimulus, small business loan liquidity and housing liquidity.

The neo-cons can scream all they want about how this is against American principles of self-reliance and small government. This is NOT an ideological question. It is a practical one — do we want recovery or do we want ruin?


I propose the Neil Garfield bottoms-up and top-down split mortgage options program.

Each underwater home owner is given the right to fix a fair value on his home.

The US Government will guarantee a mortgage on that homeowners own value with the full faith and credit of the US Government: I propose 5-year T-Bond rates for that underlying mortgage.

And then the US Government will give a lesser guarantee on a 2nd mortgage to fill the difference.

The rub: the US Government may condemn the property at will and on 60-days notice at the the price set by the homeowner. And third parties may force than condemnation procedure as well.

And in that fashion – homeowners will be very honest about their homes value.

Homeowners may adjust their value upwards if prices rise – as they will under this propgram.

39 Responses

  1. experiencedprey,

    I hear you. Problem is this – we has the people – although we have the VOTE – do not have the ability to contribute to Congressional Representatives campaigns. Politicians want to be elected – and they will support those THAT CONTRIBUTE TO THEIR CAMPAIGN. This has been an issue many times in the past – but continues as is.

    Here is the encouragement – there is an increasing large percentage of the population that has been harmed by the mortgage crisis – and by the failure to do to anything to help the people. This people will vote – and they will not care as to who provided campaign funds. They will vote according to their own pocketbook – (was told this many years ago – when I was actually in politics). And, that party that informed me of this – was right.

    I am still advocating consolidation of the people that join together here. I know Neil has his hands full – but if I were to elect a party to lead the people here – it would we Neil (THE A MAN would be my vote for running mate).

    Neil has done far more that he may even realize to help the people – but there is, unfortunately, more to be done.

    We have to stop accepting that the media/Congress/the Administration/ or failed Administration, etc. control our entire existence. We have to stand up for ourselves – and “come together.” “Come together” – can you tell I am from the sixties??

  2. Anonymous,
    Hi. I say bail out because this is the word I have seen again recently, and we are all familiar with it. Restitution, though I do agree the Govt has been part of the fraud, and certainly they are very much a part of the continuing state of the fraud, by allowing the Courts to do as they are doing. I believe it is more than that, but what about the People that work for the Mortgage companies, the underwriters, the Title Agents, the Appraisers, etc, etc.

    The companies that employ (ed) the workers and the way in which they did business in the normal course of the day. When a Business is deceitful practice as a profession, they are or should be held responsible. The Govt and the Federal Reserve, they are all participants in big and small ways. What of the American Govt who has already given our wealth away?

    They continue to spend us in to the ground. They are destroying the country. The bail out for some is it going to affect everyone? Yes, why should anyone else pay for my mortgage when they are paying their own? We are divided enough this will bring only more strife to our nation. My fault is I was introduced to the wrong professionals and my trusting naive nature. My own personal financial illiteracy. Not that I don’t believe that even a complete lack of savvy in an area should accompany illegal acts. If we have
    laws that are upheld to really protect our rights and commerce.
    I know that so many of the people here are stunned for the outlandish performance of the lending banks and employees. Most of all the Courts letting them all slide free afterward.

    We need to have some relief for all of the Mortgages that are involved. Is that really such a crazy idea that would collapse our system? People or companies being held responsible for our businesses our behaviours. It is crazy that these people have all taken their little piece of me along the way, they have it still, and I and you all lose ours. Let the responsible Parties be responsible for what has happened as a result of this business greed and they should correct this. Won’t this work? The houses sit there after foreclosure how can that be better? I mean the vision of the Govt coming in and Condemning of our homes is a very scary vision of the future. Expectations.

    What the Govt could do, is help to figure out a fix that would help figure out a way to survive it, and demand some Principal reductions and very good mortgages to cover the balance They could then keep a strict penalty for those companies and Owners of Companies, who would violate this effort in any way. They, the Govt should be watching out and protecting. our rights and preventing the harm when possible and prosecuting those who have intentions to do wrong and have done so.

    The fact that I could no longer pay the Attorney fees nor trust the Attorney I had, because there were things that added up that did not seem appropriate.

    I think they are screwing things up enough though, thanks to politics right and left.more debt would not be good for any of us. We have no money left they are monetizing the debt now. The more we cover the more we allow this to continue.

    We are just becoming servants of the Govt. The Politicians and the Government are making us all dependant on them. Correcton we are allowing ot this It shouldn’t bring such debt onto us and should be holding parties responsible for acts of misconduct and guilt of committed acts that are wrongful or in some way detrimental to our end result

    The time I have spent on this whole mess in court and with the preparation for defending my home, four years, one year plus in this foreclosure fight alone. What is this doing to our health and our sanity? What it is doing to our families our children have suffered across America.

    The whole system for correcting this must be simplified. We spend all of this time a stuck to fly paper to repair the mess. We should not have to go through this difficulty to handle this and no one is helping the situation.
    Neil is here everyday with all of these stories out there and the fricking Govt is not doing anything for this despicable mess we allow to continue. Why on Earth should we be losing our homes because as individuals we are not educated in the area of Legal Litigation necessary to fight the crimes on an individual basis.
    So if I cannot afford to keep my house now because my life has gone to the toilet there should be a way for the law to help me not get screwed for the rest of my life because the Mortgage Industry was free to steel our homes. Steel our homes through the lies and hidden reality of the loans we took.

    I have thought often of a system that would help the people who are losing homes who have had some disloyal unlawful wrongful harmful predatory or violating law etc etc. and in maybe a different way those who have lost jobs and money because of the economic situation, but the method of helping would not harm the neighbors and would involve some kind of a trade down. Making it possible for the homeowners who have suffered this monster afford to regain their lives instead of creating the permanent dependency on the Govt that we already have too much of. We could start by trying to keep it with in the houses a company holds for REO and then move on to all foreclosures, involving some sort of agreement that would be honest and not injure the borrower. They could trade for credit or there could be if not any houses foreclsoed that would be in a lesser value but would be of your choice as a borrower, there could be variations on the rule. The company could also give a credit of certain amount toward the homeowners choice in some credit deal with another mortgage company property. Putting enough toward this the same amount it would if they found a REO property thus enabling to recover from the damage caused by the bad actions caused on the borrower. We could also have some set up when the company the offending company pays directly a private owner for a home either a full or partial payment depending on each situation.

    We would not have all these empty houses eventually. The higher taxes it would take to bail out mortgage companies on top of all the wasted govt funds now going out to all the wrong reasons and lately that is a whole different discussion, We are just taking away the power of HONEST business trade we are rewarding bad behavior both of the Govt and the Bad Deceitful Business Practice. We condone the whole thing if homeowners pay again for the bail out is the way we handle it. We have already forgiven the crimes of these people why do we go further and make the Govt charge us to fix their crimes.

    They will survive and we will be happy with knowing there is a way to collect the pieces of our lives. Where and what will happen to my life if I am not able to survive in court?

    I am just thinking, I don’t know anything about economics, kind of a ridiculous thought knowing I am in this mess as partly a result of not understand if am sure that our lives are made up of
    The Govt is pushing this same thing now,that cause the problem. this money to people who can’t afford, encouraging the same slithering creatures to behave in the same manner. Fix this Govt behavior. We are lining up in the streets to be put on a list of people who might get a chance at a Govt covered roof over our heads as in Atlanta, somewhere down the road. All of these people will be just driven to wait lowering their expectations of a better future. Wait maybe we can start our breadline list now, get that out of the way. Look what this is doing to us.

    Yes we need to help our citizens who need a lift up to better their lives, but the Govt is effectively participating in my losing my home to the crimes committed so I can get in line and be that person fighting for public housing. What will happen to our country. The entire whole of the American people cannot be responsible for the mess the crooked politicians and business owners and workers and so on have created. We all lose. We lower our standards to forget this the cause. This is the effect of the cause that the Govt and Bad Business have made. Why allow them to keep doing this? we are giving them a huge opportunity to do the same thing. WE are the Govt I mean if we let the Govt pay for this that is actually the people splitting up the loss and paying it in taxes to fix the bad policy and drive the control of the GOVT that is not the people but a ruling force over the people.

    If we keep allowing the bad action and believing that bandaids cover profuse bleeding we are only making the situation worse. If the Courts can do the part to fix what is happening to the homeowners there and the right action and expectation of employers to not allow or participate in illegal activity and the taxes and the health insurance mess that is beginning to rear it’s head in the small business world that the people are under the delusion I am watching business news and business are being expected to put out over $70,000. to an employee who will only receive half of that in actual income. The money after the over priced health care insurance coverage that is coming down the road is going to the Govt so let’s make that figure climb and we will make less than that $70,000.

    Every chance this group of opposing lawyers defending the Mortgage company who does not own my mortgage and note but has made up stories about the where abouts of actual paperwork, (POPULAR INC, the original Mortgage co.) and transferring the rights to my home to several others some times crossing over to two holders at the same time according to the ever changing story they tell. The court not making them tell the truth about that because I don’t know all the tricks of the legal system to make them because I am so busy catching up with the Title Insurance company CHICAGO TITLE Insurance Co and their tricks or the now result of the subsidiary of POPULAR INC, EQUITY ONE INC, who claimed to own my mortgage and note. They did not even provide an actual address for the company EQUITY ONE Inc or a phone number. Only an attorney who could not actually tell me who his client was. NOW they claim to have sold to another transferee except they did not disclose it until they won their motion to dismiss my foreclosure from the local superior Court of BURLINGTON COUNTY NJ. JUDGE MICHAEL HOGAN Chancery Judge to that court. This party was granted motion to GO AHEAD AND FORECLOSE and TO JUST TOSS MY ENTIRE YEAR OR WORK because I, well I don’t actually know why because I am not an Attorney. JUDGE Michael Hogan, does not hear me REPEATING OVER AND OVER that I do not believe the statement that they hold my mortgage and note. The same Mortgage and Note that I have been trying to obtain for 4 fricking years now. Unavailable somehow to me for all of this time, but conveniently available to any collection agency who comes along, like ASSET RECOVERY or something?? ho wants to become assignee to.

    Attorney MICHAEL MILSTEAD of Cherry Hill NJ who says that he actually represents them and not EQUITY ONE INC. What the heck does that mean? Suddenly Equity One Inc becomes Asset Recovery with out even a lawyer change in the end stages of foreclosure?
    Judge Hogan did not help me to see the Mortgage and Note proof of original documentation that they supposedly hold, I was not aloud to be shown that the company Equity One Inc or some unspecified company about to rear their ugly head, was telling the truth… the judge said HERE I take a break to look at paperwork as to not submit inaccurrately.

    To procede as an uncotested matter

    Well obviously I am contesting it. Effectively the Judge has washed his hands of me. but Anonymous, who ever you are, as a result of writing this here I am 3 hours later and stopping this response in writing to your comments I break occasionally to research and I am realizing that this Judge based some of the dismissal on my Rescission of the Mortgage. When I first mentioned the rescission, he just sort of gave an eye roll. All the Consumer Law protection defenses to my case that I briefly mentioned resulted pretty much in a halt. I did not think I was there for that though, I thought we were there to find the truth. To show that this party is or is not even eligible to attempt foreclosure.

    The Judge does not say why he tossed all the other facts and evidence I have provided not does address why he is so quick to go with Equity One Inc, or unbeknown to him, Asset Recovery, who according to their paperwork has taken a Assignment in April of 2009, but did not act upon it until May of 2010. He says so but in what seem like a dear dear effort to find a way. I feel I have more reason not to.

    I am now seeing there are many Mortgage Fraud cases that include this as an identifying marker. In other words Asset Recovery came in after planning a year ahead, that they would be taking over a house that had not even barely started into the process. Equity One entered foreclosure complaint 24, March 2009. Asset Recovery agreed to assign, May 2009 with Equity One. it appears and apparently with the Attorney for Milstead Associates representing a company listed as Equity One Inc but not having a right address or phone attached no information really on how to contact them. Once in the beginning Mr Diaz the Attorney who was let go just before the oral meeting on their motion for summary judgment, he told me I would have to call Popular, like wise for assistant Bonnie K. this Popular Inc is the way to reach them. However according to the Attorney for Popular it was not they who were foreclosing on me. but did not disclose to me at all the truth of what was is or will be at that time.

    There are too many flaws and Now this Chicago Title Insurance company attorney is trying to basically have me muzzled, based on the result to Judges results, when the Judge would not allow me to take the case of Civil suit into the doors of foreclosure, that was to my detriment and now to their benefit.

    I am so unable to handle the enormous difficulty these people continue to cause. A very complicated case made 100 times more so by the people opposing me. And yes it sure feels like the Judge from the start would not listen hear me at all.

    Well I am going to try, but harder and harder it gets.

    Does it help to expose the story and people to the public? If I feel there are criminal acts can I go to some criminal charge? At this point I just want justice, weather I am in a shelter or tent or home, this nonsense evil hateful manipulation of people who are in this position as am I and many of you.

    I had inquired about getting moved to a different judge because he seemed to have a predetermined feeling about the subject.

    Thanks for listening and Anonymous your inspiration.
    Sorry if I hijacked the wrong topic for these statements.

  3. Underwater my ass! I’m “out” my retirement and I have as much right to be compensated for what government negligence stole from me as the schmuck who is underwater, many of whom ARE “upside down” because they needed a new damn car every year when I’m driving a 7 year old Ford pick up truck.

  4. Heard Via FOX NEWS a rumor that the OBAMA administration may consider principal reductions to current Market value for FANNIE/FREDDIE serviced loans.

    IF this is a Story, it may break this month.

  5. I know in my own experience that Chase could of kept more of their money by not giving it to NARS that’s for sure. As they make $33% of every $ collected. There are accounts that they charge off that I feel they shouldn’t of. I was allowed to sell these in a liquid market time. I didn’t do large pools though. Nor did I have to have an investors approval.

    I think that something that has to be hammered home as well is this. Mortgage collectors or loan servicers need more of an education to be doing the job they do. There’s to many people w/no real people skills much less a brain to understand what the hell to do in the 1st place.

    The bankers, attys and judges that have brought this country to their knees have had it going this way for sometime. Look at the record the Schapiro attys have. They have over 24 offices nationally with attorneys all over. Many of them doing the same thing as whats getting hit the hardest at in FL. But every state has been abused by the majority of them. I think Weidner put down that 60% of the cases he’s handling has these three groups of attys in for what their doing…

    There’s no doubt Schapiro should go down. But if people really do their job it will be more. To many can figure out the paper trail of whose been doing what. I”ve already verified various cases of showing the bias from the bench even w/o my own.

    Being front line in this crisis even before the crisis everyone should understand our banking system has discounted every type of debt for years. They also give yields.

    Also understand if your dealing w/ a professional ownership usually don’t come up. Not everyone tries to have a beef w/the bank for no reason. Most people are hard workers regardless of race or ethinticity or degree.

    I don’t know about you. But on 9/9 I’ll be 43 this year. In my whole life I’ve never seen the outright lies being done because of the BLIND TRUST THE AMERICAN PEOPLE HAVE IN OUR GOVERNMENT AND BANKING SYSTEM ITS UNBELEIVABLE.

    The outright lies by personal attorneys or our upper level elites is outright “financial and emotional terrorism. That their tyring to get us to accept. Well the conditioning isn’t working. The collusion has to stop!

  6. Just because FNM/FRE is involved…..does not mean they are the creditor/beneficiary……FNM and others often sell to asset managers(debt buyers) and others at huge discounts and they do big size…….ask the big real estate brokers in your area how much business they give them.

    why would they sell at huge discounts? It’s not because they can prove they are a true party in interest…….when have you ever owned anything and sold for pennies on the dollar in a very liquid market? You would only do this if there were big problems and you wanted to get rid of bad assets(could not prove you really own it etc)….think about it!!!

  7. PJ

    Think the 95% applies to today. But, agree Fannie had a heavy hand. Nevertheless, many are told, when you go on Fannie’s website – that they do not own the loan. If you were a Fannie/Freddie – according to government programs – a refinance was supposed to be available – reducing payments to 31% of income. Did Fannie/Freddie dump loans so that they would not have to refinance?? Heard a news anchor on CNBC talking about her Fannie refinance awhile ago – know of no other person. Sure they exist – but I do not know of any.

  8. As data indicates Fannie backs 95% of the mortgages…

  9. PJ

    Only if Fannie still has your loan.

  10. 2 Top Gun… people need to start demanding that Fannie Mae stop using our money to ENRICH people like Shapiro, Stern etal. who openly commit fraud on the court and steal property from the American people.

    There should be an outcry across the nation regarding this.

    The letter written by Conyer’s to Geithner only scratches the surface.. have written to the congressman (not my representative) requesting that he expand the probe to include an investigation such as the Florida AG. Have also written my AG requesting that Shapiro investigated for fraud on the court in my state. Also have requested an answer as to when they will be pursuing MER’s for the million’s upon millions of dollar’s they have deprived the state in avoiding “filing fee’s” at county clerk’s offices.

    Everyone in every state should be contacting their AG with this information. Fannie Mae has created these Foreclosure Mill’s with our MONEY and it has to STOP NOW!

    Send photo’s of the boat’s, mega mansions, the off shore registration of their companies and high light comments made by Stern in the SEC and buyers call.

    Perhaps the POTUS along with Geithner would be interested to know that Stern thinks they are moron’s… and why not the DC team keep’s showering the GSE’s with taxpayer money… to keep Stern, Shapiro and other’s flush while they are condoned for commiting fraud.

    Good work Top Gun!

  11. topguncrdtadvsr,

    If there were more people like you – we would not be in this mess. Thanks again.

  12. Anonymous,

    Thanks for the kind words. I just hope I don’t have more consequences for trying to tell THE TRUTH in an ATTEMPT to MAKE A CHANGE! Everything I said in the video is TRUE. If anyone wishes to check the authenticty of what I write it can be verified on pacer.Minus the pages that mysteriously got by with being removed out of the court record.

    I honestly hope that someone in FL see’s some of these postings and asks some questions. Everyone says well did you try this? did you try that? Local enforcement is useless. Judges think your crazy if you try to tell them you have the entities u have helping steal homes. I’ve even gone down to the local FBI and they were useless. They said well none of these people are on our watchlist….And basically refused to do anything. I was like what don’t you get? THEIR HELPING STEAL HOMES!!! Maybe the FL Atty General should ask Missouri US Attys and Atty General why they refuse to do anything about the FRAUD perpertrated upon the people!

    Maybe they should ask Judge Moody in AR why he refused to do anything to prevent the FINANCIAL MELTDOWN we’ve had! Don’t believe for a minute though they didn’t know they would be protected. I can remember clearly the former TRYANT for a manager who actually I found out has a Chase mortgage as well telling me “By the time you figure it out it’ll be to LATE! I also found out he has a $40k tax lien and back child support. Along with a prev chp 7…

    Maybe the Attorney generals should see what these boys know ….U know they deal and dealt directly with them…They have even opened offices offshore in like Jamaica and Panama. I guess the labor is that much cheaper.

    Seriously had they not told me they had the right to sell mortgage notes I wouldn’t of been selling them…Citi claimed they didn’t. Then I found out they only do so if its a min pur price of $3-4m. Getting them to do PROPER business is impossible…

    My thought is this just how many bankers and attys do u need to have DIRECT ACCESS to 2 get a VALID PRODUCT? Or get ??? answered about clients that could change your whole world? Who are they to get by w/removing ct documents and not make anyone answer for it? Or lying to someone for 2.5 yrs about having the right to sell mortgage notes for one of the largest banks in the world?

    Maybe they’ll want to hear how they used to take them out to the strips clubs on the company tab. An associate who worked w/me also told me after I left he left because they changed the bonus plan. If you didn’t place ahead of the other agency in fee’s collected your bonus was going to be cut in half. The 1st time they actually did it he quit!

    ALOT of knowledge comes from this site. Then a few others…Neil a friend of mine got a pleading you did I believe in AZ or CO and your wording for these PLEADINGS IS OUT OF THIS WORLD!!!

    Anonymous I received two RECUSALS for trying to tell the TRUTH as I understood it…It’s not BRAVERY ITS LIFE! I’ve never been paid NOT TO USE MY BRAIN!

    I feel I should use the knowledge I have to promote A POSITIVE CHANGE LIKE THE HARDWORKING ATTYS WHO DO SO! See my main thought in facing their CORRUPTION has been that for everyone that doens’t understand what I do about this business its my duty to make sure I promote Honesty and Integrity in a tough world. We all only have this one life to make a change and make it a better place. The last six yrs have been tough.

    I figured out they were stealing homes when I did more due diligence on the rulings by the judges in ??? Neil did an article recently about there being no consequences for judges outright doing what their doing. Dam I”d sure like to have a job that pays that well to steal. What’s the use in having a License and a degree if your gonna do what they’ve been doing and getting by w/it?

    Just how do u sue all the entities? U know their all wrapped in each others web. In my case alone even w/o who I worked for being Nars/chase/citi–All Fund turned in to Ameriquest or Acc Capital-Argent- then went to whomever bcuz the 2nd pay to the order of is blank. Then on top of it they put down 10 different entities that could own my one mortgage some that aren’t even in business anymore supposedly…like Ford motor Credit or Associates…But rubber stamped it anyway. Then the 2nd I proved Wells Fargo Trustee-Homeq-Option One-Wachovia whoever the hell it is had NO CLUE WHO THEY WERE COLLECTING FOR…The assignment was probably one of those premade ones. Like they said these things were done then not completed once the securities were issued.

    They will create the foreclosure if they have to. They have no REMORSE! I HAVE NONE ANYMORE EITHER!
    I HAVE ONE LIFE TO LIVE. I w/continue to do such by proudly by the morals I was raised with.

    1. Don’t Lie
    2. Don’t Steal
    3. Work Hard
    4. Maintain everything you have bcuz someone else always has it worse than u ever thought u did.
    5. Treat someone else how you’d like to be treated. Because you never know when you may need someone to return the favor or an act of kindness

    Now if I could just believe in the Dept Of Justice again.

  13. Ditto, Juli, as to your Neil comments.

  14. Juli,

    Everything you say is heartbreaking – and, believe me, there is so much fraud.

    Except – you write – “I hope there is NOT a bail out on mortgages in the US.” Let us call any government intervention something other than a “bail-out” – let us call it – “restitution for fraud.” And, let us work hard – to publicize the fraud.

  15. I forgot there was something else I wanted to comment on. I do believe that a lot of the credit to the positive honest stories that are starting to trail through the country ARE because of Neil and the few like him, but especially Neil with this sight it seems there is a flow of good traffic coming. I sound like I have such a jaded heart, but being in the court room and so straight up close to the dishonesty that even flows in the Court room, I just am sick. I feel so voiceless. I know there are good stories and there are more and more of these stories that are surfacing. Neil you can take some of that credit.

  16. PJ

    Something wrong -cannot open your attachment – could be my computer.

    Agree completely about foreclosure mills – but when there is continuing fraud – government has obligation to step in – and so do the courts. Why would anyone agree to continue business with someone who was defrauded them? I have learned – this is not possible. Need some prosecutions here – and what are they waiting for?

    Take those wonderful “trade” agreements, for example – if others played fair – there would be no reason for intervention. However, others do not play fair.

    Wish we could trust that others would play fair – clearly, we can not. Let them give us something we can trust – first. Waiting for this – no action yet.

  17. I don’t know the Neil bottoms up plan, but I will check it out. It is hard to write about my situation, the shocking things I come across only in my own personal experience. When I see my situation I imagine the insanity that is the underlying truth to each one of our stories… not to mention a frightening number of properties across America.

    The main thing I see with what is mentioned with a Government Mortgage deal that admits condemning the property, assuming this is an actual offer from our current Kingdom. If they are admitting to condemning your property lets be honest, it gets worse from there. You can count on that being the up side of that deal.

    I hope there is NOT a bail out on mortgages in the US, things are so bad already. We are suffering from the devistating acts of fraud and our naivate, now we want to allow the Govt to have complete control of our everything? No thanks.

    My vision of this scenario is the Govt ending up with most of the private properties and telling us when to get out, the Govt bails out the mortgages and ends up foreclosing them and packing them full a family to each bedroom until we all have nothing.

    This maybe is not what others think, I just know that if you slow the speed down and take a look at what we have not our own individual story but the little peices that when put together and complete the puzzle, the reality is even more chaotic. I know many people feel as I did, they love their home, they have been there maybe for many ,many years, but I would rather be what is the Character from Sesame Street who lives in the garbage can, him, I would rather be his room mate, than trust what the future could like if everyone took a Mortgage bailout.

    I am in what suddenly seems like the final moments of my long struggle to find the truth rise to the top, all I am finding are more and more fraudulent acts and freedom jumping out of the window. I am stunned at the trickery involved in the various companies joining forces to take the houses I know they don’t have a penny invested in.

    I figure either it is a way for the Mortgage company pretending to be the assignee to take a property that was already sold long before at a profit by the company I thought was the original company, that the Pretender owes someone else a little money and they foreclose the house and sneak it over to them as payoff for a deal “agreement” they have with an unrelated party/lender. My house is just a pawn. Just an available tangible object that will look good on paper.

    I feel like as ugly as it is, and as clear as I think I can see it, that the worst of it is looming underneath and it is really nasty.
    It does not care about the individual but it also does not care about our country and our children’s children.

    I don’t mean to sound completely hopeless, I am still fighting tooth and nail.

    I am going to put my case online for everyone who may gain any light on their own story. When I do I will pass a message I don’t know if it is the right thing to do, but if I can help anyone help their own situation at least it is like my house is donating it’s organs. so some other house might live, I mean if I am not sacrificing, but if it is going to die anyway…

    But on top of all of this the attorneys for the Title Insurance company, one of the 3 parties I am suing in Civil Court, these companies are trying to get my evidence and testimony tossed in my Civil Suit against them, just like the Judge in his wisdom has done to me in its assistance to the fraudulent parties foreclosing.on me. I just cannot believe it’s actually this bad. It is truly stunning. I have no voice what so ever in Court. They have not shown ONE bit of evidence they say I said what I didn’t and that I did not say what I did. It serves their purpose.

    The Judge did not want to hear ONE word from me. The subject of the Plaintiff’s standing had no place in his court. Period!

    I hope there is hope for everyone, that the Judge’s who are doing the right thing will spread across the country. That the fraud will be stopped. That the People will matter. I won’t give up, and I hope the people here will not either. I hope there will be no need for people to feel they have to take the latest carrot from the Govt because it is the only chance to save their home, it might turn out to be a plastic carrot.

  18. 2 Anonymous… what about this… There is a growing sentiment across America… better late then never I say..

    Hope everyone will send this letter to their representitives… and add to it, the names of all of the FORECLOSURE MILL’s that are profiting form the Ponzi Scheme set up by the GSE’s….

    No matter where a person stands on the issue at hand this is a very important stance… Get the government out of the housing market… let the player’s meet face to face and resolve the agreement.. and STOP enriching the bottom feeder’s that scam the system from within!

  19. And, this is what you have to battle. Standing, real party, and all associated fraudulent documents – remains the key. We just need to publicize – that we have been targets of fraud..

    Posted On: December 1, 2009 by John Watts & M. Stan Herring
    Interesting Article On Debt Buyers Who Buy Mortgage Loans From Defunct Banks

    A question that is starting to be asked in the mortgage context (and one that has been often asked in the credit card arena) is whether a debt buyer who buys a mortgage loan from a defunct mortgage company can collect the entire amount of the loan or is the debt buyer limited to the amount paid.

    The general answer is if it is a legitimate purchase and the new “owner” can prove it owns the debt, then the new owner is entitled to the full amount. There are serious questions about many mortgage loans and who owns them but we’ll address that at another time.

    Here are some excerpts from an interesting article discussing this issue of how much the debt buyer can collect:

    The purchaser “steps into the shoes of the original lender and is entitled to enforce all of the lender’s rights and borrower’s obligations under the loan,” Marsh explains. “The amount paid by the purchaser is irrelevant” in this process. The issue has reemerged with force in Marsh’s home state of Georgia, where a slew of bank failures has occurred, putting FDIC back in the business of selling off assets at a discount. Marsh has represented some of the buyers.

    “Most longtime loan buyers have had this type of windfall and are in business to continue to do so,” says Patrick Blount, president of Benewolf, a loan management firm based in Guthrie, Okla. “This is the primary reason for buying loans.”

    So if a new company has bought your loan then they have the right to collect on it but as we have seen with credit card debt purchases, the new company must prove that not only do you owe the debt but that it owns the debt…..

  20. The problem is this. The public has not been informed of all the fraud incorporated into the past decade mortgage origination and more recent foreclosure actions. The public is in the dark. We understand – but the public does not understand the fraud. As Cheryl said elsewhere – no one can understand until they have walked in your shoes. And, our shoes have been silenced. The fraud has been covered up – to save our financial system – as Gwen has pointed out. As a result, however, we cannot continue to be – the disposal victims.

    To topguncrdtadvsr – thank you very much for your video. You are very brave and honorable to publish your video. How true it is – everything you say. I, too, have been fighting for many years to expose what is really going on.

    And, the fraud continues. The US Government is attempting to force repurchase of “bad” loans that it acquired through its portfolios. However, it is the debt buyers – to whom the government intended to sell securities/whole loans- that are crying fraud. The Government cannot sell bad loans to new investors – ie debt buyers – without assuring that all is up to par. It is not up to par.

    Few understand that there is fraud in mortgage title – and in foreclosure standing actions – unless you are involved – or part of this blog. The public needs to be educated. And, those that are not yet affected – need to understand that they may soon be affected – if not by loss of a job – but also by loss of the value of their own (home) asset. – and by a rapidly faltering US economy.

    In my opinion, those that benefited by the fraud – must pay. There must be a return of their profit to the US Government – to make the victims whole. This is not about taxpayers bailing out those “who bought too much house” – THIS IS ABOUT FRAUD – and making the victims whole. And, in this process – restoring the economy to stability. Once we reach that stability – it is about shifting our economy from consumption dependent back to industrial and restoring meaningful incomes to the American public. It is about correcting years of Congressional approval to line the pockets of CEOs – in order to fund their own campaigns and pockets.

    This is about a correction of a disaster period perpetrated by Wall Street to siphon every dime from the American public – and by every method. It is about being heard in Congress – above the financial institution lobbyists – and telling our numerous stories of fraud. It is about rectifying a terrible period in our history.- condoned by Congress during the “hey” day. Our officials have an obligation to stand up to this – and stand up for the victims – and handle the naysayers – who cry – “but give me too” – those naysayers already have benefited – or tried to benefit – by likely investing in the fraudulent activities. Sorry, naysayers – you did not do your homework – or you would also have uncovered the fraud – and stood up to protect your fellow Americans. Today, you only sound like greedy parties – who want to ruin the people – in order place yourself as superior. You are not superior. And, you will doom your own future.

    It is about informing our courts – that foreclosures have been fraudulent. And, about demanding discovery and accounting. It is about returning justice to the people.

    There should be no sharing of losses with the corporations that perpetrated the fraud. These corporations must be held accountable. The CEOs must be held accountable. Hey, how did Madoff victims ever get an investigation?? Where is our investigation?

    It is about changing the direction of our country – before it is too late. And, it is about holding those who were only motivated by greed – and by fraud – accountable.

    I am a proponent of capitalism. But, we have reached the day that capitalism ran out of control. No economy can survive by relying on siphoning wealth out of the American public. That is what has been done. They targeted the one thing America had – homes. . And, now they are whining – “Please start spending – consuming.” And, we listen to this????

    It is about limiting campaign donations – so that no official can be lured only by the wealth of those who can control policy, law, and courts.

    And, finally, it is about our holding our President accountable – for what he promised – standing up for the people. Our president has failed. And, although I will not say how I voted – I believed Mr. Obama would fight for the people. He has sadly disappointed. Mr. Obama – you should be ashamed.

    Riots – as just shown in Georgia – will continue. This is the consequence.

    Fraud is the only question – and how do we hold those responsible accountable??

  21. The one caveat here is that local and state governments have expanded based on the taxes’ received from “inflated property appraisals”

    As RW points out…

    “Government servants [sic] are about to discover that they are not and never really were some sort of retirement elite in this country”

    The entitlement crowd is waking up to the fact that the Working Class & Middle Class are OUT OF WORK.. fact is as in the natural world… when there ain’t no worker bee’s there aint no honey!

  22. Neal,

    Please read this , , you will find some of the posts VERY interesting… (I apologize for posting this out of place but I couldn’t find your e:mail … )

  23. OP,


    I will give you my phone number and walk you through getting Dang v BOA on PACER.

    Google PACER and set up an account first. It will all cost less than $40-50, I think.

    P. S. I glanced at it and it would be a good case to have in anyone’s BK toolkit.

  24. Only problem I see is…..the too big to fail banks own the testicle-free congress. How is any of this suppose to happen?

  25. A simpler plan would be to cut all mortgages in half. Same terms, same maturity, but with a payment that is now half what it used to be. If there was a 2nd mortgage, that would be eliminated entirely. However, the first mortgage that remains equals one-half of the combined 1st and 2nd or one-half of the 1st only, whichever is greater.

    Do this, and people will now have skin back in the game, they will have their own bailout, they will have disposable income once again, home equity will return, housing will bottom, and the recession will end once and for all.

  26. I am not looking for a “free ride.” I like paying my way. I would be agreeable to staying in my house and paying something I can afford. I would be happy if my house was valued at today’s market and not the ridiculously overinflated home values that we saw here in California. The banks manipulated the market and created this mess. It’s high time that the banks are made to absorb some of the losses and contribute to a solution that works for all parties involved. This would make the most sense to me.

  27. Amen… Get this proposal to the President ASAP! To all the others…let’s not forget that we, as homeowners, invested and were defrauded too! I worked many years for that $70,000 down payment on a property that had a bogus appraisal.

    This is the right move, a fair move and a good move to get our economy moving. We could take the legal battle and fight all the fraud, but this would take years and cost the taxpayers more. The banks only stand to make more money that way by charging legal fees to investors.

    Let’s get this moving before another homeowner loses their home to more fraud!

  28. Me and my associate have devised a new way to do mortgages that benefits HOMEOWNERS and Corporations. We’re told we could have this product ready to do in like 30 days from now. It’s unique and we have sparked an interest in a new mbs scenario paying for the principal upfront. This will allow us to offer low interest rates and make home loans AFFORDABLE FOR HOMEOWNERS!!!!

    Here’s the newest video I’ve done about the fight I’ve endured to be heard in the world in which we live….

  29. Sorry: Richard Widmark was killed on The Orient Express, between Aleppo and Istanbul, by Ingrid Bergman (oh, do I wish) et al.

    The reason why Hercule Poirot could never solve the train murder was due to the first reported literary example of “Compartmentalized Fraud” – which Neil Garfield then stumbled upon about a month ago.

    Each of the numerous murderers on the Orient Express hung out in a compartment on the train as it rumbled along past Adana in Turkey.

    That is why it’s called “compartmentalized fraud”.


    The reason why we now refer to the massive debacles at AIG and Goldman etc as “compartmentalized fraud” is because they were plots hatched on sleeping compartments on various Amtrak Trains around the country. I am told that Alfred Hitchcock is coming back to do the movie: although David Lynch is bidding for the rights to make it as a sequel to “Blue Velvet”. That’s right!

  30. At the risk of over-standing my allotted time.

    The “housing crisis” is going to get much much worse.

    There are two reasons:

    # 1: we are at the portal of a long Kondratiev wave ( of secular and brutal deflation.

    Thus, the homeowner is going to be repaying his debts in an increasingly strong US dollar.

    # 2: lofty self-elevating home prices, which for the most part reflect outrageous underlying land prices, will continue to go down down down as they are about 100% -150% too high.

    # 3: the next wave of terror is about to wash over this country – not from Arabs who are doing just fine thank you very much- but from US Local and Federal Government servants

    Government servants [sic] are about to discover that they are not and never really were some sort of retirement elite in this country- but lied to along with the rest of us. In fact, it will be shown that it was government of servants lying to themselves.

    In a few years, when people who balance their budgets in places like North Dakota (which is dropping its bid for statehood) wake up to the fact that up-state Illinois wants them to pay Illinois’ bills: there will be street-level revolts throughout the country.

    The purported action we see today in home-sales is only the first round of bottom picking: there will be 2nd, 3rd, and even 4th rounds of bottom-picking. And prices will go so low that even Neil Garfield and I will be tempted to jump in.

    The housing market will not recover in terms of nominal pricing until there is no more housing market. When Time Magazine puts on its front cover that everybody should board up their houses and move into the RV: that will be the time to buy. That will not happen until about 2025, or even later.

    This baby – she been a building for 40+ years now – and it may take that long to let her cool down.

  31. NOTwithstanding the fact that loan mods and short pays have failed both due to exploitation by the banks and by design of the Obama administration to stabilize Real Estate, the gross inequity of all of these concepts is that they are all based on those who are “under water” or “upside down”. What about me? I borrowed 250K against a home that was free and clear to build my retirement home in a rural area and got caught with my pants down. Now my HELOC which I never intended to carry for any length of time stays the same while the value of both of my properties declines so it is as if my principal is growing. Why should the guy who is upside get the break when I got robbed of my retirement by the same government theft and negligence? The government is supposed to maintain stability and it was the negligence of the SEC and the federal government that cost us all our futures.

  32. […] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Mario, Courtney Lawson. Courtney Lawson said: I’m not sure I deserve credit for this, but it has a great deal of merit. It should be expanded and I’ll publish i… […]

  33. I amplify the idea as follows.

    A similar process exists in the partner dissolution cake-cutting formula.

    One partner carefully divides the assets into 2 pools: and the second partner picks which pool.

    Experienced lawyers, ex partners, and former-spouses know that it is far better to let the other partner divide the assets.

    That is because the dividing partner will salt one asset pool with what he/she really wants: and then salt the other with things he/she knows the other partner really wants or actually needs.

    The dividing partner will always always over-compensate the picking partner by making one of the two pools irresistibly attractive to the partner who does the picking.

    Thus – in this case (while the analogy is only partially applicable) maybe the homeowner should ask the US Government to split the house into 2 mortgages: a low risk mortgage and a high-risk mortgage with the proviso that the US Government – having done the picking – will give the homeowner a 5-year vacation from condemnation on a low valuation in the case of the low-risk mortgage.




    WHAT THE F$%^$#%^#$cK





  36. Did anyone vote here vote in this survey?

    August 9, 2010

    These poll numbers were released earlier today by Rasmussen Reports — “an electronic publishing firm specializing in the collection, publication, and distribution of public opinion polling information.”


    58% Oppose Federal Mortgage Forgiveness Plan for Troubled Homeowners

    Monday, August 9, 2010

    Rumors have circulated that the Obama administration is considering a partial mortgage forgiveness plan to help those who owe more than their homes are worth. Just 28% of U.S. voters favor such a proposal.

    A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 58% oppose a proposal to have the federal government forgive a portion of the mortgage debt owned by troubled homeowners. Fourteen percent (14%) are not sure about it.

    Opposition is a few points higher among homeowners. And, those the plan is designed to help are also opposed. Those who they owe more on their mortgages than their houses are worth oppose the mortgage forgiveness proposal by a two-to-on margin.

    Sixty-three percent (63%) of voters think a government mortgage forgiveness program is unfair to those who have been regularly paying their mortgages. Twenty-three percent (23%) disagree and believe such a program is fair.

    Among homeowners, 21% say it’s fair, 67% unfair.

    The survey of 1,000 Likely Voters was conducted on August 5-6, 2010 by Rasmussen Reports. The margin of sampling error is +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence. Field work for all Rasmussen Reports surveys is conducted by Pulse Opinion Research, LLC. See methodology.

    Forty percent (40%) of homeowning voters now owe more on their mortgage than their house is worth. Fifty-four percent (54%) say their home is worth more than what they owe.

    Nearly half (48%) of homeowners think government-ordered mortgage forgiveness for some homeowners would be bad for the economy. Thirty percent (30%) say it would be good for the economy, and 15% believe it would have no impact.

    Among all voters, 33% say it would be economically beneficial, while 44% say its impact would be bad. Sixteen percent (16%) think it would have no impact on the economy.

    Seventy-five percent (75%) of Republicans and 65% of voters not affiliated with either major party oppose a federal mortgage forgiveness plan. A plurality (47%) of Democrats favors such a plan, but 38% of the president’s party oppose it.

    Nearly half (49%) of Democrats say government-ordered mortgage forgiveness for some homeowners would be good for the economy. Sixty-seven percent (67%) of GOP voters disagree and say the plan would be bad for the economy. Among unaffiliated voters, 33% say good, but 47% say bad.

    Republicans and unaffiliateds strongly believe such a plan would be unfair to those who have been regularly paying their mortgages. Democratic voters are evenly divided on the question.

    Sixty-eight percent (68%) of the Political Class say a mortgage forgiveness plan would be good for the economy. Fifty-five percent (55%) of Mainstream voters feel otherwise and think it would hurt the economy.

    One-in-seven homeowners (14%) say they are at least somewhat likely to miss or be late with a mortgage payment in the next six months.

    Homeowners are more pessimistic these days about both the short- and long-term outlooks for the housing market.

    President Obama’s mortgage assistance program is currently winding down, but from the start Americans have been slightly more skeptical of the program than favorable toward it.

    Most Americans (61%) think it is better for the economy if the government stays out of the housing market.

  37. Your proposal contradicts all that you’ve said about fraudulent mortgages. It smacks of another government program. Yeah, why don’t we all just make our mortgage payments directly to the IRS? NO. Why would people want to re-contract with any of these clowns? People are wising up…thanks to you and others…and won’t settle for anything less than NO mortgage. Remember? Fraud vitiates all contracts. It’s time for a government bail out of all homeowners! The funds go to the people and the investors, and NOT the banks this time. Otherwise, what’s the point of all this controversy? Why bombard our brains with fraudulent contracts, chain of title issues, MERS, and so on….or are you just proposing this option for people and attorneys and judges who don’t have the guts to make things right? Perhaps you see the impending doom ahead and want to ease the transition?

  38. does anyone know how to look at cases in other states. I need to view a bankruptcy filing in Maryland that has BofA/CIG as a defendant that is the same as my case.

    Dang v. Bank of America, NA et al
    Case Number: 1:2010cv02062

    Plaintiff: Barbara Kim Dang
    Defendants: BAC Home Loans Servicing LP , Bank of America, NA , CIG HFI 1st Lien Mortgage , DOES 1-200 and Northwest Trustee Services

    Presiding Judge: Benson Everett Legg
    Cause Of Action: Notice of Appeal re Bankruptcy Matter (BA
    Court: Fourth Circuit > Maryland > District Court
    Type: Bankruptcy > Appeal

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