Do Not Open Closing Package: REALLY

From Christopher

Very first page of closing jacket reads, and I quote:

“Two complete closing packages
–one for you to open and review prior to your closing
–one for your closing agent to open (please keep this package sealed until your closing agent arrives).”

also, quote:

“At the scheduled closing meeting, the closing agent will open “their package” and “review all of the documents” with you. The mortgage documents are signed and any monies due are collected. The “entire loan closing process normally takes” 30-45 minutes. That’s all there is to it!” —end quote.

Both of these statements are removed from the cover page of the closing jacket. We initialled asked the Rep. why we couldn’t look at the “sealed package?” He said standard proceedure and assured us that our copy to review was identical. We didn’t push the issue but we did let him know that we didn’t understand the documents. He said not to worry about it becuase the Closing agent would explain everything at closing, as well as, answer any questions we had.

The closing agent arrived and asked if we had the “sealed package?” We provided it and asked why we were not allowed to look it over. The agent abruptly asked if we had opened it, and we said no. But we asked again, what if we had opened it? The agent said, “I brought another one with me incase that happened [laughing].”

As the closing proceeded we raised numerous questions about terms, fees, etc… The agent provided a brief label of some documents as she hurriedly flipped the pages for signature. The agent’s husband remained quiet throughout the process, and the Agent would only return a look of disgust everytime I asked a question. Finally, in the Agent’s frustration, she simply said that we would have to contact our loan Rep. to answer our questions because it was not her job, and she did not have any knowledge of what was negotiated.

Immediately after closing, we contacted the Rep. and explained our discomfort with the signing process. We also raised numerous questions, of which, he always seemed to have the perfect answer that just served to add to our confusion. He did, however, admit that he was sorry to hear that the closing agent would not answer our questions like he said she would.

BTW, the entire process did take less than an hour despite trying to get questions answered.

8 Responses

  1. In followup to my 1-29-10 comment: The unopened pkg appears to be a means by which documents have been shuffled, after the fact of tabled-closing. I find that the initals pages are not my initials, only the signature page and other documents were added including a compliance and disclosure statement saying I’ve given tacit consent to approve and sign-off on any changes. I called my local attorney (Sunday am) who I’ve known 40-yrs who table-closed with the pretender
    lender, and he will not be party to fraud and forgery carrying a potential 30-yr and $1M fine punishment. He also was present when that unopened 2nd package was brought by the pretender-lender and he heard me ask and then be refused to look at the contents therein.
    This gets better the deeper I look. And my rescission letter (sent with the QWR as an addendum page) thus makes opportunity to the ‘servicer’ of a one-time only settlement during the 60-day QWR reply to act very prudently by filing a satisfaction of mortgage or quit claim in lieu of any further discovery (nonjudicial too)
    which will then provide the court with QWR cause for discovery in my pursuing relief 3x treble damages and all profits, YSP, etc from E&O insurance, etc. which I WILL pursue … thus this is a means by which they can quiet title and clear cloud and walk away NOW or prove themselves illegal vultures in court and activate the E&O etc. being made aware (+ HUD, FHA, SEC) to also punish them in due course as their QWR reply must include all documentation. I also included in my QWR and Rescission Notice clause hereby enforcing my 4th Amendment Rights; any subsequent action or other attempts to resolve the issue by means of agent or other parties will be deemed an overt threat against the safety and security of my property and as trespass (signs in-place) to be dealt with after Mirandizing the violator by any and all means necessary to subdue and enforce my rights as legal title holder and owner. I’m closing the book on those people and their false sense of control over me, my rights and my legal Title. Kind of what they try to do by convincing us we have no alternatives to short-sale or foreclosure. PS – Did anyone here HUD Secty (young) Donovan gloat how he’s come up with the ‘best alternative’ in putting $2B into rehabbing foreclosed homes? He apparently is incompetent; good at Gov’t protocol but lacking insight or creativity to place credit/equity back to homeowners via principal resetting or forgiveness and only looks to the banks & realtors as answer (while they’re profiting).
    The foreclosures will continue to mount, local judiciate will remain MERS-naive as to the undermining of the scam’s largesse and homes being stolen. HUD’s new
    $2B bandaid will only serve to self-ingratiate bankers who try to keep us all convinced that it’s for our own good: after all they can count better than us & we need them to manage & hold our money (sic). So, another windfall for the banks from their co-party politicos. * I do
    encourage all readers to go over those initials and signatures on all Notes & Deed with a fine-tooth comb!

  2. I was enlightened by your story of the second package, as that was the case when I purchased 1.5-yrs ago. The broker/lender rep also refused to open the package after I questioned him & was told the same:
    “its my copies of the same documents”. I was never shown the cover page either nor was it included, then I was called by the attorney’s office and told they messed up the documents and would send me a new set … so I kept them all & upon recent review see this.

    Today I received a very interesting letter from an investment firm called AFGI out of Chicago, called a
    ‘Statement of Variation’ regarding my FHA loan. The letter states the loan I took out (wrong date listed) was now due for a $107/month decrease! Not sure if this is due to my recent FDIC request for a FOIA record of all documents & records associated with my loan. Yet oddly as well, AFGI has a different FHA Case # on the letter too?! I think their reply to my QWR I’m sneding next week to AFGI will provide me with extra evidence of lending fraud there too by the servicer/lender as this is an insurance and securities firm who likely sent me a document by mistake due to my unending pressure.

    Also: I had an email from FDIC regarding my request yesterday for all SEC and HUD and any insurance and loans secured by my original mortgage not file. The FDIC attorney wants me to call him…I will, when ready.
    And I had an email reply yesterday from Chair of The Congessional Oversight Panel, Elizabeth Warren,
    whom I wrote to a month ago regarding MERS et al defrauding homeowners with bait-& switch fraud and backalley dealings w/o due course publicly recorded transfers making me non-privy & thus non-party to nor approver of me as co-Trustor and co- Maker of any other than my original Note. She kindly thanked me.
    The letter goes on to state “Congress did not give the panel any authority to act … just ask questions” !? So, I now see it will take each of us digging up the dirt on our cases by means of cross-referencing and getting piece-meal information from 3rd party inquiry to make it clearly obvious the pretenders have done this and are continung to attempt coverup: then contrats it with the servicer’s QWR.

    The FL move to nonjudicial status should make those impacted owners all more agitated, and necessitate their prompt action to create a very deft and rife QWR letter. Include language demanding front/back copies of all folders and notation inside & outside the servicer & lender & all third party files on your cases. Get the E&O policy + state license verification and coursework proof of competency, the engagement letter from the original broker/lender hiring & sending instructions for the appraiser. Remember that appraisal is somewhat subjective in that only three (3) improved sales are used on the URAR market grid analysis; while there are likely many more good comparables which should be in his file with MLS data + vacant land sales from MLS should be in the appraiser’s file, as land is always valued as though vacant & able to be developed to its Highest & Best Use (whether as a residential or commercial use being most productive).
    And those data sheets should not have current dates on the bottom of the page, like new printouts would, as
    listings become renamed sales in MLS the day they sell. So allow your QWR to serve you best in gathering all the servicer and/or lender/appraiser call logs and the payment receipts and ledger showing where your monthly payments are actually applied, plus those of any unknown (to you) 3rd party account sheet ledgers.
    I’m starting to understand there will be no common man bailout; local banks now will have $20Billion and we still will have no new jobs created or we’ll lack the ability to lend as our credit ratings will prohibit their being able to ‘qualify’ us to borrow … great for them, bad for us. Principal foregiveness or reduction on bad loan 1st mortgages is the ONLY means of placing equity and rebuilding credit ratings immediately to the common man’s benefit … and there is no downside for the lenders (local or big-bank) since they’ve been paid in insurance, sell-offs & Gov’t-loans (with our money) already and we thus likely don’t owe anything at all.
    It would cost them nothing except an accurate resetting
    of property to present-worth via 50-100% downgrade
    & quit claim or satisfaction of mortgage filing for $10: but you know they’ll never do that unless pushed and caught in their own lies (Geithner, Paulson are you listening?!) but would be the best action for America since then individuals wouldn’t default, go bankrupt and would qualify to borrow more against the equity, and small businesses would again trust & rebuild !
    Not rocket science, I’m not a Fed Secretary … it’s logic.
    Homeowners must stand up and show the courts we are aware of the scam perpetrated against our best interests, that we will not be misled around on a debt
    leash any more as slave to their min-control that they are helping us manage our money money because we’re too dumb & only worker bees, with their corrupt system of money/credit shuffle of the nut/note away from our knowledge of player and profits. Thus, why I term MERS a StrawMan Shell-Game of bait-&-switch fraud. We’ve been had, and they’d love for us to never peer outside the cave to realize theirs is a flashlight drawing in moths … NOT the real Sun. It’s classic … Plato’s “Allegory of The Cave”, well worth the read.

  3. Christopher,

    I am sorry you had such a bad experience with what appears to be a very unprofessional notary signing agent.

    In all honesty, I have not done a closing since 2001, so I am sure there have been a great many changes since then. I can tell you that if a closing is done properly, it takes closer to 2 hours. Although, as a notary I was not permitted to answer any specific questions, I always made sure that the borrowers had ample time to compare the documents in their package against the documents in mine.

    As a matter of fact, my first question was to ask if they had reviewed their closing documents and if they had contacted their mortgage lender/broker, attorney, or whomever they were dealing with with any questions.

    In hindsight, when I refinanced in 2005, it did not take very long. As you said, the person was just flipping the pages and said “sign here” “sign here” and “sign here.”

  4. Yes I agree with your position to avoid giving legal advice inadvertantly by answering certain questions.

    Thank you for the reply.

    I suggested halting the closing until questions could be answered, but the risk of losing another $500 good-faith deposit certainly aided me in keeping my mouth shut. The agents huffed a few times, but not once did the agent refrain from flipping pages.

  5. Always ask about the YSP, poc (paid outside closing). It equals 10% of what the correspondent
    lender is making on the deal by selling a higher
    interest rate than you could have had (ie margin).
    If the YSP indicated is $2,000 paid outside closing to the broker out of the lenders funds, it means $20,000 in true YSP by selling you the higher interest
    rate. At that point you might want to renegotiate the deal and demand a lower margin differential. You
    are already paying the broker on the front end, why
    pay the broker and pretender lender on the back end
    too when you could have a lower interest rate?

  6. I believe this is for refinance.

  7. Is this regarding a modification or an origination?

  8. this is standard for a notary signing agent. we are not permitted to answer questions regarding the documents because it is deemed giving legal advice. as a matter of fact, we really do not know what the documents are other than a brief description of the documents, such as “this is your mortgage” or “this is your note.”

    you are taught to give a brief overview of the documents and to tell the buyers to contact their mortgage lender/broker, attorney, and/or bank for details.

    as a notary signing agent, your job mainly is get the documents signed in your presence and notarize the signatures. I cannot tell you if both packages contain the same documents, I would have presumed they do, but after everything I have learned in the past 2 years, I could be very wrong.

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